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	<title>Comments on: Hot Button: A Touch of Evil</title>
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		<title>By: GiacomoArt</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-5250</link>
		<dc:creator>GiacomoArt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>During her college years, my wife played in a D&amp;D group where alignment served only one function: when a new player was introduced to the game, he would be asked what alignment his character was. If the answer included the word &quot;evil&quot;, he never got invited back.

Myself, I had given up alignment as a bad business before I even met her. As role-playing tools go, it&#039;s a sledgehammer in a pottery studio. It serves no real purpose beyond giving Character-A a canned excuse to kill Character-B, and can lead to all sorts of in-fighting and hard feelings as the game participants argue back and forth about how the vague abstract concepts apply themselves to concrete contextual actions.

There are plenty of reasons to role-play a character with a dark side – an anti-hero – but as soon as you apply the word &quot;evil&quot; to your own character, you&#039;ve stopped trying to get inside his head and the whole thing turns into a self-conscious farce along the lines of &quot;Dr. Evil&quot; (Austin Powers) or &quot;Doofenschmertz Evil Incorporated&quot; (Phineas &amp; Ferb). Dark &amp; gritty? Okay. But I would never run an &quot;evil&quot; campaign, nor allow an &quot;evil&quot; character in any game more serious than &quot;Toon&quot;, period.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;5250&#039;,&#039;GiacomoArt&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During her college years, my wife played in a D&amp;D group where alignment served only one function: when a new player was introduced to the game, he would be asked what alignment his character was. If the answer included the word &#8220;evil&#8221;, he never got invited back.</p>
<p>Myself, I had given up alignment as a bad business before I even met her. As role-playing tools go, it&#8217;s a sledgehammer in a pottery studio. It serves no real purpose beyond giving Character-A a canned excuse to kill Character-B, and can lead to all sorts of in-fighting and hard feelings as the game participants argue back and forth about how the vague abstract concepts apply themselves to concrete contextual actions.</p>
<p>There are plenty of reasons to role-play a character with a dark side – an anti-hero – but as soon as you apply the word &#8220;evil&#8221; to your own character, you&#8217;ve stopped trying to get inside his head and the whole thing turns into a self-conscious farce along the lines of &#8220;Dr. Evil&#8221; (Austin Powers) or &#8220;Doofenschmertz Evil Incorporated&#8221; (Phineas &amp; Ferb). Dark &amp; gritty? Okay. But I would never run an &#8220;evil&#8221; campaign, nor allow an &#8220;evil&#8221; character in any game more serious than &#8220;Toon&#8221;, period.
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		<title>By: Naberius</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-4981</link>
		<dc:creator>Naberius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=538#comment-4981</guid>
		<description>I have less of an issue with evil characters than I do with &quot;good&quot; characters.  

In my experience, many players choose a &quot;good&quot; alignment during character development, and either 1) forget about ethics and morality altogether or 2) rationalize PC behavior as &quot;good&quot; simply because their alignment is designated as &quot;good&quot;.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;4981&#039;,&#039;Naberius&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have less of an issue with evil characters than I do with &#8220;good&#8221; characters.  </p>
<p>In my experience, many players choose a &#8220;good&#8221; alignment during character development, and either 1) forget about ethics and morality altogether or 2) rationalize PC behavior as &#8220;good&#8221; simply because their alignment is designated as &#8220;good&#8221;.
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		<title>By: roamer</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-4097</link>
		<dc:creator>roamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 21:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=538#comment-4097</guid>
		<description>I am fine with Evil Characters of any of the alignment varieties within that sphere of the weal. As long as it doen&#039;t wind up becoming a pvp setting within the group. An example of a good campaign i played in my pc was Lawful Evil, in a mostly good group. His motivations for being with the party were to eliminate the various robber barons terrorizing the masses for 2 reasons: 1) as logn as he operated nominally within the range of his fellow company member&#039;s morales he would be viewed more as a hero, adn thus win the hearts and minds of the masses.2) once all of the robber barons were taken care of, it would create a power vacumm from which he would step foward and assume the riens of power. In short by working with the party( for now) he elimnated his compitetion. Gaining him closer access to the current leige of the realm, which afforded him a better chance to plunger the assassin&#039;s dagger into the king&#039;s heart and back.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;4097&#039;,&#039;roamer&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am fine with Evil Characters of any of the alignment varieties within that sphere of the weal. As long as it doen&#8217;t wind up becoming a pvp setting within the group. An example of a good campaign i played in my pc was Lawful Evil, in a mostly good group. His motivations for being with the party were to eliminate the various robber barons terrorizing the masses for 2 reasons: 1) as logn as he operated nominally within the range of his fellow company member&#8217;s morales he would be viewed more as a hero, adn thus win the hearts and minds of the masses.2) once all of the robber barons were taken care of, it would create a power vacumm from which he would step foward and assume the riens of power. In short by working with the party( for now) he elimnated his compitetion. Gaining him closer access to the current leige of the realm, which afforded him a better chance to plunger the assassin&#8217;s dagger into the king&#8217;s heart and back.
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		<title>By: penguin133</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-3067</link>
		<dc:creator>penguin133</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=538#comment-3067</guid>
		<description>IMO that is the only trouble with Evil, a truly Evil character who loves it for its own sake has to be at least borderline insane; barring the profit motive or someone who is trying to gain power, etc. None of those really fit with the motives of a PC? They are far more suited to an Enemy! PCs more or less have to be some kind of Boy Scout unless they can find some sort of rationale for why their supposedly Evil character would be working with good guys and trying to save the World? Basically, what&#039;s in it for him? I suppose the Arch-Enemy might be his worst foe?
Ian&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3067&#039;,&#039;penguin133&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO that is the only trouble with Evil, a truly Evil character who loves it for its own sake has to be at least borderline insane; barring the profit motive or someone who is trying to gain power, etc. None of those really fit with the motives of a PC? They are far more suited to an Enemy! PCs more or less have to be some kind of Boy Scout unless they can find some sort of rationale for why their supposedly Evil character would be working with good guys and trying to save the World? Basically, what&#8217;s in it for him? I suppose the Arch-Enemy might be his worst foe?<br />
Ian
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		<title>By: Oblivion_Necroninja</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-3061</link>
		<dc:creator>Oblivion_Necroninja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=538#comment-3061</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got a (4e) D&amp;D group where I&#039;ve got one Chaotic Evil character. The reason I allowed the player to create a Chaotic evil character was this: he wanted to be chaotic, and neither Good nor Unaligned seemed to &quot;fit&quot; the kind of character I knew he would play. I allow chaotic evil because, without Chaotic Neutral, it&#039;s really the only alignment for people who want to play characters that are borderline insane.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3061&#039;,&#039;Oblivion_Necroninja&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got a (4e) D&amp;D group where I&#8217;ve got one Chaotic Evil character. The reason I allowed the player to create a Chaotic evil character was this: he wanted to be chaotic, and neither Good nor Unaligned seemed to &#8220;fit&#8221; the kind of character I knew he would play. I allow chaotic evil because, without Chaotic Neutral, it&#8217;s really the only alignment for people who want to play characters that are borderline insane.
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		<title>By: Kaelbane</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-2632</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaelbane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 02:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=538#comment-2632</guid>
		<description>Even playing in games with no alignment as such, I have a &quot;The player characters are good guys. Thus, in AD&amp;D1 terms, all PCs must be either either Lawful or Good, and they can&#039;t be Evil&quot; policy.
That&#039;s who I make worlds for. There&#039;s enough evil in real life, capital and lower-case e. It doesn&#039;t inspire me. It isn&#039;t fun. It sucks.
Imagine a game about raping the loopholes in the financial markets for your personal gain. &quot;My character is a Lobbyist, but he&#039;s just trying to pay the bills...&quot;&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;2632&#039;,&#039;Kaelbane&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even playing in games with no alignment as such, I have a &#8220;The player characters are good guys. Thus, in AD&amp;D1 terms, all PCs must be either either Lawful or Good, and they can&#8217;t be Evil&#8221; policy.<br />
That&#8217;s who I make worlds for. There&#8217;s enough evil in real life, capital and lower-case e. It doesn&#8217;t inspire me. It isn&#8217;t fun. It sucks.<br />
Imagine a game about raping the loopholes in the financial markets for your personal gain. &#8220;My character is a Lobbyist, but he&#8217;s just trying to pay the bills&#8230;&#8221;
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		<title>By: Sarlax</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-1688</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarlax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=538#comment-1688</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I have no objection to Evil characters per se, but they must have some kind of honour at least, ie. I have had arguments with players who thought of the rest of the party as perambulating prey? You - meaning the evil character - must not steal from the other players...&lt;/i&gt;

Think of Jayne Cobb in Firefly. He seems pretty evil and is largely motivated by cash. In &quot;Out of Gas,&quot; it&#039;s revealed he joined up with the Serenity crew because it paid better and he got his own room.

Jayne&#039;s evil appears often in the show, and, in one episode, it drives the plot. Except for that one episode, Jayne being evil doesn&#039;t really interfere with the &quot;adventure.&quot; His evil actually positively drives another adventure &quot;Jaynestown,&quot; in which he&#039;s a hero for an (evil) act he performed that the town thinks was done for their own good, and it explores his character in a very cool way.

In &quot;Ariel,&quot; the episode in which Jayne betrays the &quot;party,&quot; evil certainly is a problem. If these events had occured in an RPG, these events could be explained by two possible sequences of events:

1. Jayne&#039;s player is a prick who used his evil alignment as an excuse to cause trouble and score cash. The GM decided to control this, so he had the NPC confederate turn on Jayne and another PC threatened to kill Jayne because he was irritated with the player&#039;s antics.

2. Jayne&#039;s player and the GM decided together that it would be cool to have a story that explored Jayne&#039;s evil and its consequences, discussed it with the group, and everyone decided to give it a shot.

I think its #1 that makes many people ban evil PCs in a group, but #2 possibilities could make for a very fun game.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;1688&#039;,&#039;Sarlax&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I have no objection to Evil characters per se, but they must have some kind of honour at least, ie. I have had arguments with players who thought of the rest of the party as perambulating prey? You &#8211; meaning the evil character &#8211; must not steal from the other players&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Think of Jayne Cobb in Firefly. He seems pretty evil and is largely motivated by cash. In &#8220;Out of Gas,&#8221; it&#8217;s revealed he joined up with the Serenity crew because it paid better and he got his own room.</p>
<p>Jayne&#8217;s evil appears often in the show, and, in one episode, it drives the plot. Except for that one episode, Jayne being evil doesn&#8217;t really interfere with the &#8220;adventure.&#8221; His evil actually positively drives another adventure &#8220;Jaynestown,&#8221; in which he&#8217;s a hero for an (evil) act he performed that the town thinks was done for their own good, and it explores his character in a very cool way.</p>
<p>In &#8220;Ariel,&#8221; the episode in which Jayne betrays the &#8220;party,&#8221; evil certainly is a problem. If these events had occured in an RPG, these events could be explained by two possible sequences of events:</p>
<p>1. Jayne&#8217;s player is a prick who used his evil alignment as an excuse to cause trouble and score cash. The GM decided to control this, so he had the NPC confederate turn on Jayne and another PC threatened to kill Jayne because he was irritated with the player&#8217;s antics.</p>
<p>2. Jayne&#8217;s player and the GM decided together that it would be cool to have a story that explored Jayne&#8217;s evil and its consequences, discussed it with the group, and everyone decided to give it a shot.</p>
<p>I think its #1 that makes many people ban evil PCs in a group, but #2 possibilities could make for a very fun game.
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		<title>By: penguin133</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-1684</link>
		<dc:creator>penguin133</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have no objection to Evil characters per se, but they must have some kind of honour at least, ie. I have had arguments with players who thought of the rest of the party as perambulating prey? You - meaning the evil character - must not steal from the other players (Though if you can find a way to CON them, but politely, it is acceptable, for instance if you can get them to gamble with YOUR dice!) - and you may not use poison, torture or betrayal in the presence of a NON-Evil PC., nor may you backstab them!? I&#039;ve never really used Alignment play, though it could make life interesting; but behaviour I consider needs to be kept track of? I do liike the idea of henotheism, the examples I think would very much apply; a Pagan would sacrifice to the god/dess of whatever applied, the Seagod or Luck etc, depending on his present undertaking, danger or enterprise, whatever he might currently need help with; though his main loyalties would lie with his specific Patron deity, whome he might ask to intercede with some other deity on his behalf? Another thought for instance is that Alexander the Great considered HIMSELF a God or demigod, but insisted on sacrificing to every local God he encountered? The Vikings also had no objection to sacrificing or professing belief in their own Norse or Germanic deities while being at least nominally Christian, depending on who was currently in charge?! A final point, that Pagan deities were considered to be all too human, with fallibilities and feelings of their own, jealous, capricious and not in the least altruistic, Alignment as such is a purely arbitrary means of considering their influence in our RPG world?! Again it boils down to behaviour, if your Patron God, in the person of your GM., thinks you behaved badly as your character or otherwise, better duck! Self-interest is great, even normal, but to backstab your buddies, poison friends, steal the treasure and escape, then expect to return to the same campaign as the same character, &quot;I&#039;m Evil, it is what I DO!&quot; Maybe you are an NPC in disguise.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;1684&#039;,&#039;penguin133&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no objection to Evil characters per se, but they must have some kind of honour at least, ie. I have had arguments with players who thought of the rest of the party as perambulating prey? You &#8211; meaning the evil character &#8211; must not steal from the other players (Though if you can find a way to CON them, but politely, it is acceptable, for instance if you can get them to gamble with YOUR dice!) &#8211; and you may not use poison, torture or betrayal in the presence of a NON-Evil PC., nor may you backstab them!? I&#8217;ve never really used Alignment play, though it could make life interesting; but behaviour I consider needs to be kept track of? I do liike the idea of henotheism, the examples I think would very much apply; a Pagan would sacrifice to the god/dess of whatever applied, the Seagod or Luck etc, depending on his present undertaking, danger or enterprise, whatever he might currently need help with; though his main loyalties would lie with his specific Patron deity, whome he might ask to intercede with some other deity on his behalf? Another thought for instance is that Alexander the Great considered HIMSELF a God or demigod, but insisted on sacrificing to every local God he encountered? The Vikings also had no objection to sacrificing or professing belief in their own Norse or Germanic deities while being at least nominally Christian, depending on who was currently in charge?! A final point, that Pagan deities were considered to be all too human, with fallibilities and feelings of their own, jealous, capricious and not in the least altruistic, Alignment as such is a purely arbitrary means of considering their influence in our RPG world?! Again it boils down to behaviour, if your Patron God, in the person of your GM., thinks you behaved badly as your character or otherwise, better duck! Self-interest is great, even normal, but to backstab your buddies, poison friends, steal the treasure and escape, then expect to return to the same campaign as the same character, &#8220;I&#8217;m Evil, it is what I DO!&#8221; Maybe you are an NPC in disguise.
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		<title>By: LordVreeg</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-1667</link>
		<dc:creator>LordVreeg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting.
Fang has the Polythjeistic thing in hand.  People pray to the God that deals with their current issues, though they might have a family or even a business patron.
Though we don&#039;t use an alignment system in Celtricia, I have kept score behind the screen.  Which is fun.  And What comes from this is that more than half of the PC&#039;s of the setting (and that is over a hundred) have been what might be called by the black-and-white crowd &#039;evil&#039;.  Self-interest, enlightened or rationalized, is often realistic.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;1667&#039;,&#039;LordVreeg&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.<br />
Fang has the Polythjeistic thing in hand.  People pray to the God that deals with their current issues, though they might have a family or even a business patron.<br />
Though we don&#8217;t use an alignment system in Celtricia, I have kept score behind the screen.  Which is fun.  And What comes from this is that more than half of the PC&#8217;s of the setting (and that is over a hundred) have been what might be called by the black-and-white crowd &#8216;evil&#8217;.  Self-interest, enlightened or rationalized, is often realistic.
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		<title>By: Fang Langford</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-1664</link>
		<dc:creator>Fang Langford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=538#comment-1664</guid>
		<description>@SwordGleam: Quite true!  I was just breaching the concept for the monotheists reading.  A common mistake made is they don&#039;t even understand what henotheism is.  Thanks for elaborating on this issue!&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;1664&#039;,&#039;Fang Langford&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SwordGleam: Quite true!  I was just breaching the concept for the monotheists reading.  A common mistake made is they don&#8217;t even understand what henotheism is.  Thanks for elaborating on this issue!
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		<title>By: Joey</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-1662</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 05:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=538#comment-1662</guid>
		<description>As a general rule I allow my players to take any alignment that they want. I always remind them that if one is a Paladin and one is an Evil character one of them will be remking a character within 5 minutes of starting the campaign.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;1662&#039;,&#039;Joey&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a general rule I allow my players to take any alignment that they want. I always remind them that if one is a Paladin and one is an Evil character one of them will be remking a character within 5 minutes of starting the campaign.
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		<title>By: Swordgleam</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-1660</link>
		<dc:creator>Swordgleam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 00:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=538#comment-1660</guid>
		<description>@Fang: But many polytheists are henotheists. For example, while Odysseus might offer prayers to Zeus on the appropriate occasions, Athena is clearly his patron god. When he needs something, that&#039;s who he asks, unless another god would clearly be offended by being left out.

While many people living in a polytheist society worship all the gods, most great heroes (and villains) tend to be henotheists. They have one patron god, whom they worship and serve above all others. To mix settings, a cleric of, say, Ares would probably offer a brief prayer to Poseidon before going on a lengthy sea voyage, but their daily devotions would always be to Ares, and they would sacrifice at his temple first.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;1660&#039;,&#039;Swordgleam&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Fang: But many polytheists are henotheists. For example, while Odysseus might offer prayers to Zeus on the appropriate occasions, Athena is clearly his patron god. When he needs something, that&#8217;s who he asks, unless another god would clearly be offended by being left out.</p>
<p>While many people living in a polytheist society worship all the gods, most great heroes (and villains) tend to be henotheists. They have one patron god, whom they worship and serve above all others. To mix settings, a cleric of, say, Ares would probably offer a brief prayer to Poseidon before going on a lengthy sea voyage, but their daily devotions would always be to Ares, and they would sacrifice at his temple first.
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		<title>By: Sarlax</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-1657</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarlax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=538#comment-1657</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure who &quot;you guys&quot; are, but there&#039;s something that needs correction. Evil races run the range in D&amp;D. Here&#039;s a bit about orcs from MM 4E.

&quot;Orcs ... are savage, bloodthirsty marauders. They plague the civilized races of the world and also &lt;i&gt;fight among themselves&lt;/i&gt; for scraps of food and treasure. They love close combat and plunge furiously into the thick of battle, giving no thought to retreat or surrender.&quot;

You&#039;ve also got races like the drow that are almost entirely turned in on themselves, to the point of murdering their twins in the womb. On the other hand, some races are outwardly focused, like githyanki and mindflayers - they don&#039;t battle each other.

Whether or not they fight each other or only other races, they are still, on average, evil. Not evil in the &quot;your culture is different from my culture&quot; way, but in the &quot;you have too much fun torturing infants&quot; way. Mind flayers fully cooperate with each other but are still sadistic brain eaters. Githyanki seek to conquer and enslave other intelligent creatures.

As far as polytheism goes, my statement earlier that &quot;These deities are probably all prayed to at one time or another by every decent human in the D&amp;D world&quot; indicates recognition that polytheistic people offer prayers to different gods at appropriate moments, not singular-fixation prayers to only one god.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;1657&#039;,&#039;Sarlax&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure who &#8220;you guys&#8221; are, but there&#8217;s something that needs correction. Evil races run the range in D&amp;D. Here&#8217;s a bit about orcs from MM 4E.</p>
<p>&#8220;Orcs &#8230; are savage, bloodthirsty marauders. They plague the civilized races of the world and also <i>fight among themselves</i> for scraps of food and treasure. They love close combat and plunge furiously into the thick of battle, giving no thought to retreat or surrender.&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve also got races like the drow that are almost entirely turned in on themselves, to the point of murdering their twins in the womb. On the other hand, some races are outwardly focused, like githyanki and mindflayers &#8211; they don&#8217;t battle each other.</p>
<p>Whether or not they fight each other or only other races, they are still, on average, evil. Not evil in the &#8220;your culture is different from my culture&#8221; way, but in the &#8220;you have too much fun torturing infants&#8221; way. Mind flayers fully cooperate with each other but are still sadistic brain eaters. Githyanki seek to conquer and enslave other intelligent creatures.</p>
<p>As far as polytheism goes, my statement earlier that &#8220;These deities are probably all prayed to at one time or another by every decent human in the D&amp;D world&#8221; indicates recognition that polytheistic people offer prayers to different gods at appropriate moments, not singular-fixation prayers to only one god.
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		<title>By: Fang Langford</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-1656</link>
		<dc:creator>Fang Langford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You guys have mixed up two things.

First, you&#039;re missing the whole point with &#039;evil&#039; D&amp;D races.  Most of the time, those races listed as &#039;evil&#039; aren&#039;t being evil to their members.  Orcs don&#039;t rape and pillage their own villages after all.  In that context, &#039;evil&#039; races are more well called inhumane or anti-human-elf-dwarf-etc.

Second, from a lack of knowledge you are completely mischaracterizing a polytheistic religion.  I don&#039;t mind; it&#039;s normal enough. Gods in pantheology rarely have singular devotees.  In almost any case, a person will &#039;worship&#039; whichever deity holds sway over the matters at hand.  To use a familiar example, a sailor would &#039;worship&#039; Poseidon while at sea and Ares while in battle.  The idea that anyone outside of temple-keepers would worship a single deity was ludicrous back then.  I mean...one deity?  Whatareyou nuts?

Fang Langford&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;1656&#039;,&#039;Fang Langford&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys have mixed up two things.</p>
<p>First, you&#8217;re missing the whole point with &#8216;evil&#8217; D&amp;D races.  Most of the time, those races listed as &#8216;evil&#8217; aren&#8217;t being evil to their members.  Orcs don&#8217;t rape and pillage their own villages after all.  In that context, &#8216;evil&#8217; races are more well called inhumane or anti-human-elf-dwarf-etc.</p>
<p>Second, from a lack of knowledge you are completely mischaracterizing a polytheistic religion.  I don&#8217;t mind; it&#8217;s normal enough. Gods in pantheology rarely have singular devotees.  In almost any case, a person will &#8216;worship&#8217; whichever deity holds sway over the matters at hand.  To use a familiar example, a sailor would &#8216;worship&#8217; Poseidon while at sea and Ares while in battle.  The idea that anyone outside of temple-keepers would worship a single deity was ludicrous back then.  I mean&#8230;one deity?  Whatareyou nuts?</p>
<p>Fang Langford
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		<title>By: Sarlax</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/hot-buttons/hot-button-a-touch-of-evil/comment-page-1#comment-1654</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarlax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=538#comment-1654</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;... but in the real world, there aren’t any religions (composed of more than a few people, at least) that are devoted to doing evil.&lt;/i&gt;

There are few in D&amp;D world, too. The DMG in 4E suggests that the gods whose religious principles are to actively pursue Evil itself are scattered and secretive, like Tharizdun&#039;s. As thought exercise, read the divine entries in the DMG without the word &quot;evil&quot; or similar tainting words. Try Bane:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Bane is the god of war and conquest. Militaristic nations of humans and goblins serve him and conquer in his name. Fighters and paladins serve him.&quot;

He commands his worshipers to:
- Never allow your fear to gain mastery over you, but drive it into the hearts of your foes.
- Punish insubordination and disorder.
- Hone your combat skills to perfection, whether you are a mighty general or a lone mercenary.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

He doesn&#039;t sound explicitly evil unless you add the word &quot;Evil&quot; in his description. He actually sound like a perfectly decent war god who could be at home in any great empire&#039;s pantheon, whether Roman, Aztec, etc. Asmodeus is a god for tyrants, Gruumsh an Ares-like god for barbarians, Tiamat a god for those seeking riches, etc. 

Even though there is a whole set of gods that are themselves evil, their faiths largely aren&#039;t Pro-Evil, but simply lowercase &#039;e&#039; evil. These deities are probably all prayed to at one time or another by every decent human in the D&amp;D world. Knights might offer prayers to Bane that their troops stay disciplined. Prison guards probably offer regular praise to Torog. Everyone with an embarrassing secret probably prays to Vecna that it remains secret.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;1654&#039;,&#039;Sarlax&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230; but in the real world, there aren’t any religions (composed of more than a few people, at least) that are devoted to doing evil.</i></p>
<p>There are few in D&amp;D world, too. The DMG in 4E suggests that the gods whose religious principles are to actively pursue Evil itself are scattered and secretive, like Tharizdun&#8217;s. As thought exercise, read the divine entries in the DMG without the word &#8220;evil&#8221; or similar tainting words. Try Bane:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Bane is the god of war and conquest. Militaristic nations of humans and goblins serve him and conquer in his name. Fighters and paladins serve him.&#8221;</p>
<p>He commands his worshipers to:<br />
- Never allow your fear to gain mastery over you, but drive it into the hearts of your foes.<br />
- Punish insubordination and disorder.<br />
- Hone your combat skills to perfection, whether you are a mighty general or a lone mercenary.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>He doesn&#8217;t sound explicitly evil unless you add the word &#8220;Evil&#8221; in his description. He actually sound like a perfectly decent war god who could be at home in any great empire&#8217;s pantheon, whether Roman, Aztec, etc. Asmodeus is a god for tyrants, Gruumsh an Ares-like god for barbarians, Tiamat a god for those seeking riches, etc. </p>
<p>Even though there is a whole set of gods that are themselves evil, their faiths largely aren&#8217;t Pro-Evil, but simply lowercase &#8216;e&#8217; evil. These deities are probably all prayed to at one time or another by every decent human in the D&amp;D world. Knights might offer prayers to Bane that their troops stay disciplined. Prison guards probably offer regular praise to Torog. Everyone with an embarrassing secret probably prays to Vecna that it remains secret.
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