Comments on: Gnome Rodeo: Link Me Amadeus

By: Martin Ralya

Martin Ralya — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:30:58 +0000

Re: skill challenges, I guess I’ve only looked at one analysis of the number’s (Stalker0’s, I believe — but a different EN World thread than the one linked above), and I didn’t find it compelling. I’ll have to go dig it up again.

It looks like my group will be playing Shadowfell in a couple of weeks, so presumably I’ll get a chance to see how skill challenges actually play out.

Thanks for the feedback on the rodeo format — I’m glad it’s working so far.

(And flatvurm, it’s great to see you here!)

By: trollsmyth

trollsmyth — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:40:00 +0000

I love the rodeos. But hey, I'm from Texas, so what do you expect? But seriously, they're a great overview of the past week's GMing goodness, and I always find something I've missed. And they throw hits at folks who do neat stuff, which I hope encourages them to do even more neat stuff. - Brian

By: lebkin

lebkin — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:42:45 +0000

My problem with Baker's take is that I think it relies too heavily on the Aid Another action. This kind of system balancing is highly dependent on the size of the party. Combat encounters scale for the size of the party; the skill challenges do not. A two character party, for example, does not get that nice +8 bonus; it gets only a +2, and thus makes the challenge much harder. And that is assuming the aid another action is a valid application in that particular skill check. Some are not, as noted by Baker about chases scenes. Thus that entire balance method is thrown out the window. Also odd as this may sound, I do not like the idea of giving skill bonuses based on role-playing as a means of balancing a challenge. The challenge should be balanced mechanically without any DM fiat additions. Any DM bonus should be a reward, not a necessity for good party success. To me, it seems that taking Baker's approach is much like how we did it in past: by feel and gut. Personally, I want a robust, mathematically sound system, just like we have in combat. That is what appeals to me about Stalker's system. It has a very sound algorithm at its core on which to build encounters, just like the combat encounter system. Wow. That was a really long side-topic post. Sorry about that. Back to your regularly schedule commenting.

By: flatvurm

flatvurm — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:22:15 +0000

Because you asked…I enjoy the rodeos.

By: ChattyDM

ChattyDM — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:24:50 +0000

I would say that Stalker's system is perfect for people who want a rock solid algorithm which players can trust. I'd prefer it in an environment where trust in the DM has not been established or is challenged (Martin, I'd love to see you write on Trust). I prefer Baker's take (which I think hits closer to the original intent) of having 1 skill roller, up to 4 helpers and a possible +2 or more bonus for awesome roleplaying. In that case the math work too. However that necessitates a certain level of trust between DM and players. Both are valid, I prefer the apparent simplicity of the second.

By: Bartoneus

Bartoneus — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:21:20 +0000

Lebkin: Again, Keith Baker's write up about skill challenges addresses the difficulty complaint in a really good way. Presented as flat rolling vs. DC for a number of successes the math seems too difficult, but when you look at it in the context of an adventure and with roleplaying included, the modifiers to the math start to make a lot more sense.

By: lebkin

lebkin — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:59:06 +0000

I think the main complaint I have heard with the Skill Challenge system is that challenges are way too hard. I have heard as bad as 10% average success rate. WotC simply didn’t work the math out properly. A good breakdown of the problem, and more importantly, a good solution can be found at EN World by Stalker0 here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=230567

By: PaPeRoTTo

PaPeRoTTo — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:54:11 +0000

I don’t like the skill challenge system…

aaaaaaanyway.. i like Gnome Rodeos as they come.. sprinkles of sites and just an introduction to the features they have in

keep it up as it is!!

By: ChattyDM

ChattyDM — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:02:36 +0000

I don't think that Skill challenges are broken... It's just that I needed to read the section 3 or 4 times to 'get' it. However, reading Keith Baker's take on it makes it a lot clearer! Nothing wrong with skill challenge, except that the recipe is badly delivered IMHO.