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	<title>Comments on: World Building: Monsters and Myths</title>
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	<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths</link>
	<description>The Game Mastering Blog</description>
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		<title>By: ZedZed77</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths/comment-page-1#comment-9910</link>
		<dc:creator>ZedZed77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6975#comment-9910</guid>
		<description>Scott, you talk about point buy in the old V:tM rules. Mutants and Masterminds uses point buy for all of its characters and NPCs, and one of the consequences is a relative ease in tweaking monster traits.

Implementing &quot;Our vampires are different&quot; is a little extra work up front, but the chance to make a creature your own and not something from a Manual is worth it.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9910&#039;,&#039;ZedZed77&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, you talk about point buy in the old V:tM rules. Mutants and Masterminds uses point buy for all of its characters and NPCs, and one of the consequences is a relative ease in tweaking monster traits.</p>
<p>Implementing &#8220;Our vampires are different&#8221; is a little extra work up front, but the chance to make a creature your own and not something from a Manual is worth it.
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		<title>By: The Stray7</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths/comment-page-1#comment-9800</link>
		<dc:creator>The Stray7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@Scott Martin - Indeed. Cultural differences tend to be a theme in my games, which lets me got lots of mileage out of different races and monsters.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9800&#039;,&#039;The Stray7&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Scott Martin &#8211; Indeed. Cultural differences tend to be a theme in my games, which lets me got lots of mileage out of different races and monsters.
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		<title>By: BryanB</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths/comment-page-1#comment-9791</link>
		<dc:creator>BryanB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 17:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6975#comment-9791</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-9790&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Scott Martin&lt;/a&gt; - I eventually wanted the PCs to encounter the last of the Ogrynn Druids - Keeper of their history and the relics of the Tundra Mother. But I haven&#039;t worked out the details of how that would come about. Initially, the first Ogres the PCs encounter would act as people have come to expect. :D&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9791&#039;,&#039;BryanB&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-9790' rel="nofollow">@Scott Martin</a> &#8211; I eventually wanted the PCs to encounter the last of the Ogrynn Druids &#8211; Keeper of their history and the relics of the Tundra Mother. But I haven&#8217;t worked out the details of how that would come about. Initially, the first Ogres the PCs encounter would act as people have come to expect. <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />
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		<title>By: Scott Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths/comment-page-1#comment-9790</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 16:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6975#comment-9790</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-9765&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@BryanB&lt;/a&gt; - I guess everyone&#039;s an ogre lover these days. ;) It sounds like an interesting change-- how did you let the players in on their history? Or did it not matter, since Ogres now act brutally, just as you&#039;d expect?

&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-9767&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Martin Ralya&lt;/a&gt; - I wonder how you&#039;d alter the monsters and their myths for a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/the-decamer-campaign-start-with-dnds-10-stupidest-monsters&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;decamer&lt;/a&gt; campaign-- since these fringe monsters are now the core of the experience.

&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-9768&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@ggodo&lt;/a&gt; - Sounds expensive from a liability insurance point of view. Still, if you&#039;re willing to cut corners...

&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-9786&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@The Stray7&lt;/a&gt; - That does sound like two very different takes, with a strong emphasis on cultural differences instead of game stats.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9790&#039;,&#039;Scott Martin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-9765' rel="nofollow">@BryanB</a> &#8211; I guess everyone&#8217;s an ogre lover these days. <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  It sounds like an interesting change&#8211; how did you let the players in on their history? Or did it not matter, since Ogres now act brutally, just as you&#8217;d expect?</p>
<p><a href='#comment-9767' rel="nofollow">@Martin Ralya</a> &#8211; I wonder how you&#8217;d alter the monsters and their myths for a <a href="http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/the-decamer-campaign-start-with-dnds-10-stupidest-monsters" rel="nofollow">decamer</a> campaign&#8211; since these fringe monsters are now the core of the experience.</p>
<p><a href='#comment-9768' rel="nofollow">@ggodo</a> &#8211; Sounds expensive from a liability insurance point of view. Still, if you&#8217;re willing to cut corners&#8230;</p>
<p><a href='#comment-9786' rel="nofollow">@The Stray7</a> &#8211; That does sound like two very different takes, with a strong emphasis on cultural differences instead of game stats.
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		<title>By: The Stray7</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths/comment-page-1#comment-9786</link>
		<dc:creator>The Stray7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ve done some altering of monsters based on how I wanted to use them. It&#039;s interesting that you bring up Redcaps, because I&#039;ve had a lot of fun with those.

I&#039;ve used Redcaps in two different settings. In one, Redcaps were cannibalistic murderous goblins hunting cities at night. In another, they were more akin to bandit clans of hillbilly gnomes. The changes I made were linked to the role they played in the game they appeared in (And I loved the Spriggan from the MM2, which gave me stats I could use that would work for either band).

The difference was mainly that one was a race of baddies (the goblins, which were meant to invoke fears of facing inhuman things that wanted to eat you) and the other was a culture of baddies (the hillbilly gnomes, which weren&#039;t representative of the whole race, just a minority of it that was particularly nasty).&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9786&#039;,&#039;The Stray7&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve done some altering of monsters based on how I wanted to use them. It&#8217;s interesting that you bring up Redcaps, because I&#8217;ve had a lot of fun with those.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve used Redcaps in two different settings. In one, Redcaps were cannibalistic murderous goblins hunting cities at night. In another, they were more akin to bandit clans of hillbilly gnomes. The changes I made were linked to the role they played in the game they appeared in (And I loved the Spriggan from the MM2, which gave me stats I could use that would work for either band).</p>
<p>The difference was mainly that one was a race of baddies (the goblins, which were meant to invoke fears of facing inhuman things that wanted to eat you) and the other was a culture of baddies (the hillbilly gnomes, which weren&#8217;t representative of the whole race, just a minority of it that was particularly nasty).
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		<title>By: ggodo</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths/comment-page-1#comment-9768</link>
		<dc:creator>ggodo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 06:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>On the subject of Ogres, Ravnica&#039;s Ogres are dumb laborers who occasionally eat humanoids, but it&#039;s all regulated by the law and society just sorta goes with it.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9768&#039;,&#039;ggodo&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the subject of Ogres, Ravnica&#8217;s Ogres are dumb laborers who occasionally eat humanoids, but it&#8217;s all regulated by the law and society just sorta goes with it.
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		<title>By: Martin Ralya</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths/comment-page-1#comment-9767</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Ralya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 02:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I love this approach, Scott! I think this works best when (as you suggest) these lovingly altered monsters are central to your campaign, giving your players a chance to uncover details about them as they progress.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9767&#039;,&#039;Martin Ralya&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this approach, Scott! I think this works best when (as you suggest) these lovingly altered monsters are central to your campaign, giving your players a chance to uncover details about them as they progress.
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		<title>By: BryanB</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths/comment-page-1#comment-9765</link>
		<dc:creator>BryanB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Dragonlance setting also had a fresh take on Minotaurs with the Minotaurs having a civilized empire on the continent of Taladas.

In a homebrew campaign setting that I have placed on the back burner, I have the Ogres that we all know and love from D&amp;D. But my Ogres weren&#039;t always the savage brutes that the world has to deal with now.

At one time, they were a peaceful agrarian race that worshipped a Goddess they called their Tundra Mother. It was a branch of the Elven race that caused the Ogres to turn from farmers into warriors. It was a 100 year war of genocide that reduced the Ogres into rare primal savages.

The Tundra Mother lost her sanity during the carnage. When she finally snapped, she used her divine energy to curse the Elven Empire that had all but butchered most of her children. The world now knows those elves as Orcs.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9765&#039;,&#039;BryanB&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Dragonlance setting also had a fresh take on Minotaurs with the Minotaurs having a civilized empire on the continent of Taladas.</p>
<p>In a homebrew campaign setting that I have placed on the back burner, I have the Ogres that we all know and love from D&amp;D. But my Ogres weren&#8217;t always the savage brutes that the world has to deal with now.</p>
<p>At one time, they were a peaceful agrarian race that worshipped a Goddess they called their Tundra Mother. It was a branch of the Elven race that caused the Ogres to turn from farmers into warriors. It was a 100 year war of genocide that reduced the Ogres into rare primal savages.</p>
<p>The Tundra Mother lost her sanity during the carnage. When she finally snapped, she used her divine energy to curse the Elven Empire that had all but butchered most of her children. The world now knows those elves as Orcs.
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		<title>By: Scott Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths/comment-page-1#comment-9764</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 18:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-9761&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Hawkesong&lt;/a&gt; - That&#039;s an interesting twist on Ogres-- it sounds like they blended right in. Weis and Hickman had their own interesting take on Ogres in Dragonlance-- do you remember the Irda?

&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-9762&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Roxysteve&lt;/a&gt; - It&#039;s been too long since I last read Lords of Light; thanks for the reminder-- clearly it&#039;s time to dig it out again. 

I love the story about the griffon; it&#039;s amazing how clearly an image from a game can stick.

&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-9763&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Razjah&lt;/a&gt; - Goblin Huns sounds interesting-- you can slip historical behaviors for Huns into your game as forewarning and a great template for personalities. Will your Goblins borrow the Hun&#039;s love of mounted archery? That, combined with riding wolves would make them deadly...&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9764&#039;,&#039;Scott Martin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-9761' rel="nofollow">@Hawkesong</a> &#8211; That&#8217;s an interesting twist on Ogres&#8211; it sounds like they blended right in. Weis and Hickman had their own interesting take on Ogres in Dragonlance&#8211; do you remember the Irda?</p>
<p><a href='#comment-9762' rel="nofollow">@Roxysteve</a> &#8211; It&#8217;s been too long since I last read Lords of Light; thanks for the reminder&#8211; clearly it&#8217;s time to dig it out again. </p>
<p>I love the story about the griffon; it&#8217;s amazing how clearly an image from a game can stick.</p>
<p><a href='#comment-9763' rel="nofollow">@Razjah</a> &#8211; Goblin Huns sounds interesting&#8211; you can slip historical behaviors for Huns into your game as forewarning and a great template for personalities. Will your Goblins borrow the Hun&#8217;s love of mounted archery? That, combined with riding wolves would make them deadly&#8230;
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		<title>By: Razjah</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths/comment-page-1#comment-9763</link>
		<dc:creator>Razjah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 17:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I alter creatures a lot. In a campaign that I&#039;m planning for the fall the fall the main monsters are goblin who are based loosely on the Huns and the gnolls that are based on vikings for combat. The goblins are not cowards and are extremely war like.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9763&#039;,&#039;Razjah&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I alter creatures a lot. In a campaign that I&#8217;m planning for the fall the fall the main monsters are goblin who are based loosely on the Huns and the gnolls that are based on vikings for combat. The goblins are not cowards and are extremely war like.
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		<title>By: Roxysteve</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths/comment-page-1#comment-9762</link>
		<dc:creator>Roxysteve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Zelazny Rakshasas (from his award-winning novel Lord of Light) are a good example of padding out the world with interesting stuff, not because they are alien (the entire premise of Lord of Light is an SF one with elements of Hindu Mythology grafted on more or less believably) but because they have a weakness, an addiction actually, for gambling and will always take a wager if the stakes are acceptable.

Of course, the only stake a human has that is of any interest to them is his/her soul...

As I recall the Rakshasa offers the bound service of lesser members of its type as it&#039;s side of the wager.

One of the more memorable enconters I had in an old old OLD white box D&amp;D campaign run in 1 BSW (Before Star Wars) was with a Griffon who agreed to accompany our party down into a dungeon complex, but was obsessively honest and insisted that all loot be divvied-up as it was acquired, counting out the copper pieces one by one to be sure a fair deal was had by all. All role-played to the hilt by Clive the GM.

It had a &quot;chest of holding&quot;. 

We didn&#039;t.

It took a remarkably short time before we were driven to the point of insisting the Griffon just take everything so we could move on (for pity&#039;s sake).

But the salient point is that I remember that damned imaginary Griffon 34 years later like it was sitting in front of me now. This is the pay off for such specialised in-game factors.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9762&#039;,&#039;Roxysteve&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Zelazny Rakshasas (from his award-winning novel Lord of Light) are a good example of padding out the world with interesting stuff, not because they are alien (the entire premise of Lord of Light is an SF one with elements of Hindu Mythology grafted on more or less believably) but because they have a weakness, an addiction actually, for gambling and will always take a wager if the stakes are acceptable.</p>
<p>Of course, the only stake a human has that is of any interest to them is his/her soul&#8230;</p>
<p>As I recall the Rakshasa offers the bound service of lesser members of its type as it&#8217;s side of the wager.</p>
<p>One of the more memorable enconters I had in an old old OLD white box D&amp;D campaign run in 1 BSW (Before Star Wars) was with a Griffon who agreed to accompany our party down into a dungeon complex, but was obsessively honest and insisted that all loot be divvied-up as it was acquired, counting out the copper pieces one by one to be sure a fair deal was had by all. All role-played to the hilt by Clive the GM.</p>
<p>It had a &#8220;chest of holding&#8221;. </p>
<p>We didn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>It took a remarkably short time before we were driven to the point of insisting the Griffon just take everything so we could move on (for pity&#8217;s sake).</p>
<p>But the salient point is that I remember that damned imaginary Griffon 34 years later like it was sitting in front of me now. This is the pay off for such specialised in-game factors.
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		<title>By: Hawkesong</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/world-building-monsters-and-myths/comment-page-1#comment-9761</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawkesong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I altered Ogres in my game &quot;Golden Spires of Ceranna.&quot; The main action of the game is urban based - the PCs generally don&#039;t travel far from the capital city. With the level of &quot;law and order&quot; in the area, it was vanishingly unlikely that &quot;normal&quot; monsters would ever manage to get a foothold inside the city walls...but I really love having one or two big-damage monsters to throw at the PCs.
Then I recalled a version of the Ogre from the novel &quot;Midnight Blue&quot; by Nancy A. Collins. This ogre is pretty awful, but it has adaptations that allow it to blend in with human society. I took that notion and applied it to the DD&amp; ogre: something smaller, but tougher and meaner, which could pass for a dumb laborer most of the time, and could then safely predate on the streets of the city. The &quot;city ogre&quot; has wits enough to lay plans and conceal its nature.

When the PCs encountered these monsters, they were at first confused, then intrigued. As they discover more about the breed, they could potentially face a decision of whether to employ these horrible monsters, or to eradicate them from the city.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9761&#039;,&#039;Hawkesong&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I altered Ogres in my game &#8220;Golden Spires of Ceranna.&#8221; The main action of the game is urban based &#8211; the PCs generally don&#8217;t travel far from the capital city. With the level of &#8220;law and order&#8221; in the area, it was vanishingly unlikely that &#8220;normal&#8221; monsters would ever manage to get a foothold inside the city walls&#8230;but I really love having one or two big-damage monsters to throw at the PCs.<br />
Then I recalled a version of the Ogre from the novel &#8220;Midnight Blue&#8221; by Nancy A. Collins. This ogre is pretty awful, but it has adaptations that allow it to blend in with human society. I took that notion and applied it to the DD&amp; ogre: something smaller, but tougher and meaner, which could pass for a dumb laborer most of the time, and could then safely predate on the streets of the city. The &#8220;city ogre&#8221; has wits enough to lay plans and conceal its nature.</p>
<p>When the PCs encountered these monsters, they were at first confused, then intrigued. As they discover more about the breed, they could potentially face a decision of whether to employ these horrible monsters, or to eradicate them from the city.
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