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	<title>Comments on: Troy&#8217;s Crock Pot: The Eyes Have It</title>
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		<title>By: penguin133</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-1712</link>
		<dc:creator>penguin133</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Round as opposed to square or angular towers appeared in castles for the two reasons cited, fields of fire - you need to &quot;project&quot; to fire ALONG the face of a wall - and because corners were areas of vulnerability and weak points, places where a wellplaced cannon shot or ram could take a bite from TWO  walls. Same applied to a mine, of course, and given corners that spot would be hard to cover from either wall. For the same reason, stairs in towers went clockwise, so that in a siege the retreating defender&#039;s swordarm was unhampered by the central pillar, while the attacker&#039;s arm constantly fouled it. (I hope I don&#039;t have that in reverse, I happen to be lefthanded!)
In space terms, it depends on what my character is doing? A Thief may hide in Shadows in a small space;if he moves or attacks it needs at least a 2/3 Space. This also depends on what a character is wearing or carring, bulky armour or encumbrance are dangerous,while chr. larger than human may be in serious trouble!
Ian&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;1712&#039;,&#039;penguin133&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Round as opposed to square or angular towers appeared in castles for the two reasons cited, fields of fire &#8211; you need to &#8220;project&#8221; to fire ALONG the face of a wall &#8211; and because corners were areas of vulnerability and weak points, places where a wellplaced cannon shot or ram could take a bite from TWO  walls. Same applied to a mine, of course, and given corners that spot would be hard to cover from either wall. For the same reason, stairs in towers went clockwise, so that in a siege the retreating defender&#8217;s swordarm was unhampered by the central pillar, while the attacker&#8217;s arm constantly fouled it. (I hope I don&#8217;t have that in reverse, I happen to be lefthanded!)<br />
In space terms, it depends on what my character is doing? A Thief may hide in Shadows in a small space;if he moves or attacks it needs at least a 2/3 Space. This also depends on what a character is wearing or carring, bulky armour or encumbrance are dangerous,while chr. larger than human may be in serious trouble!<br />
Ian
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		<title>By: Troy E. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-297</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy E. Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 07:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=54#comment-297</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s what the SRD says about squeezing, which may or may not apply to the partial square issue. (For me, it would probably depend on whether the adjacent square was occupied. Logically, I can stand in a partial space and not be &quot;squeezed.&quot; But then, when did logic enter into D&amp;D&#039;s tactical rules.)
Squeezing
You can squeeze through or into a space that is at least half as wide as your normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if it were 2 squares, and while squeezed in a narrow space you take a -4 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty to AC.

...

To squeeze through or into a space less than half your space’s width, you must use the Escape Artist skill. You can’t attack while using Escape Artist to squeeze through or into a narrow space, you take a -4 penalty to AC, and you lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.

Telas&#039; solution above is certainly in the spirit of these rules.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;297&#039;,&#039;Troy E. Taylor&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s what the SRD says about squeezing, which may or may not apply to the partial square issue. (For me, it would probably depend on whether the adjacent square was occupied. Logically, I can stand in a partial space and not be &#8220;squeezed.&#8221; But then, when did logic enter into D&amp;D&#8217;s tactical rules.)<br />
Squeezing<br />
You can squeeze through or into a space that is at least half as wide as your normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if it were 2 squares, and while squeezed in a narrow space you take a -4 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty to AC.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>To squeeze through or into a space less than half your space’s width, you must use the Escape Artist skill. You can’t attack while using Escape Artist to squeeze through or into a narrow space, you take a -4 penalty to AC, and you lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.</p>
<p>Telas&#8217; solution above is certainly in the spirit of these rules.
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		<title>By: GeeksDreamGirl</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-295</link>
		<dc:creator>GeeksDreamGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 20:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=54#comment-295</guid>
		<description>Hooray for learning something new today!&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;295&#039;,&#039;GeeksDreamGirl&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hooray for learning something new today!
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		<title>By: Bartoneus</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>Bartoneus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 13:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=54#comment-270</guid>
		<description>Simple solution?  I discourage my players from humping curved walls.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;270&#039;,&#039;Bartoneus&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simple solution?  I discourage my players from humping curved walls.
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		<title>By: Kurt "Telas" Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-251</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt "Telas" Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 21:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=54#comment-251</guid>
		<description>Partial square ballpark solution for D&amp;D, using Medium critters:  

If at least 2/3 of the square is open (GM&#039;s opinion), it&#039;s a square.  

If 1/3 to 2/3 is open, it&#039;s squeezing.  2x movement costs, -4 to both AC and attack rolls.

If less than 1/3 is open, it can only be occupied by a stationary figure.  As above, but also considered Flat Footed.

Yes I am just making this up.  Why do you ask?  :-)&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;251&#039;,&#039;Kurt \&quot;Telas\&quot; Schneider&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Partial square ballpark solution for D&amp;D, using Medium critters:  </p>
<p>If at least 2/3 of the square is open (GM&#8217;s opinion), it&#8217;s a square.  </p>
<p>If 1/3 to 2/3 is open, it&#8217;s squeezing.  2x movement costs, -4 to both AC and attack rolls.</p>
<p>If less than 1/3 is open, it can only be occupied by a stationary figure.  As above, but also considered Flat Footed.</p>
<p>Yes I am just making this up.  Why do you ask?  <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />
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		<title>By: Troy E. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-235</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy E. Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 16:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=54#comment-235</guid>
		<description>Bartoneus:
I was really thinking of a tower as part of a castle or other fortification. 
Yeah, the stand-alone wizard&#039;s tower really is a different animal. 

You bring up an interesting point as referring to partial squares. Can you occupy a partial square? Or don&#039;t those partial squares count? I&#039;m curious, how do you handle those in your game? It&#039;s certainly worth looking up in the rulebooks, which I think I&#039;ll do right now.

Tallarn: I agree. An unpainted mini looks just fine on the tabletop.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;235&#039;,&#039;Troy E. Taylor&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bartoneus:<br />
I was really thinking of a tower as part of a castle or other fortification.<br />
Yeah, the stand-alone wizard&#8217;s tower really is a different animal. </p>
<p>You bring up an interesting point as referring to partial squares. Can you occupy a partial square? Or don&#8217;t those partial squares count? I&#8217;m curious, how do you handle those in your game? It&#8217;s certainly worth looking up in the rulebooks, which I think I&#8217;ll do right now.</p>
<p>Tallarn: I agree. An unpainted mini looks just fine on the tabletop.
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		<title>By: Bartoneus</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-221</link>
		<dc:creator>Bartoneus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 12:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=54#comment-221</guid>
		<description>Troy:  One big issue with this whole tower discussion is whether or not you&#039;re referencing a tower in relation to a castle, or simply a tower on its own.  

The sapping issue you mentioned is MUCH more pertinent to castles / towers than to the single tower you see on its own in pretty much any D&amp;D game.  Most singular round towers are found in Ireland and Scotland, and the biggest reason a lot of them are still standing is because the round shape provides the best resistance to the winds that they experience as they get up there in height.

The square peg - round hole issue is definitely a problem though, assuming that a single person fully occupies 25 square feet of space is definitely frustrating at times.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;221&#039;,&#039;Bartoneus&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Troy:  One big issue with this whole tower discussion is whether or not you&#8217;re referencing a tower in relation to a castle, or simply a tower on its own.  </p>
<p>The sapping issue you mentioned is MUCH more pertinent to castles / towers than to the single tower you see on its own in pretty much any D&amp;D game.  Most singular round towers are found in Ireland and Scotland, and the biggest reason a lot of them are still standing is because the round shape provides the best resistance to the winds that they experience as they get up there in height.</p>
<p>The square peg &#8211; round hole issue is definitely a problem though, assuming that a single person fully occupies 25 square feet of space is definitely frustrating at times.
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		<title>By: tallarn</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-219</link>
		<dc:creator>tallarn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 10:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=54#comment-219</guid>
		<description>I too have resorted to plastic mini&#039;s and downloaded counters rather than painting stuff.

But then, I am the person that used to declare that plain metal Games Workshop tanks looked &quot;perfectly fine&quot; on the tabletop...&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;219&#039;,&#039;tallarn&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too have resorted to plastic mini&#8217;s and downloaded counters rather than painting stuff.</p>
<p>But then, I am the person that used to declare that plain metal Games Workshop tanks looked &#8220;perfectly fine&#8221; on the tabletop&#8230;
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		<title>By: Troy E. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-218</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy E. Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 07:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I remember that about Saint Augustine when my wife and I took a quick up-and-down tour of the Florida east coast several years ago. The thing that struck me was how small the rooms in the fort actually were. I mean, really small. 

Immolate: You&#039;re absolutely right about &quot;eating&quot; cannon balls. What an absolutely great description for that.

Telas: Did not mean to make you feel sad. :( I acknowledged that you got the answer partly right.  I say that everyone who took part in this round towers discussion gets a pepperoncini from the crock pot for playing! Pepperoncinis for everyone! 

Hmmmmm, tasty!&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;218&#039;,&#039;Troy E. Taylor&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember that about Saint Augustine when my wife and I took a quick up-and-down tour of the Florida east coast several years ago. The thing that struck me was how small the rooms in the fort actually were. I mean, really small. </p>
<p>Immolate: You&#8217;re absolutely right about &#8220;eating&#8221; cannon balls. What an absolutely great description for that.</p>
<p>Telas: Did not mean to make you feel sad. <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' />  I acknowledged that you got the answer partly right.  I say that everyone who took part in this round towers discussion gets a pepperoncini from the crock pot for playing! Pepperoncinis for everyone! </p>
<p>Hmmmmm, tasty!
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		<title>By: Reverend Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-215</link>
		<dc:creator>Reverend Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 02:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Fun fact: The castillo in St. Augustine has never been taken by force, only through diplomacy...gotta love that cocina...&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;215&#039;,&#039;Reverend Mike&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fun fact: The castillo in St. Augustine has never been taken by force, only through diplomacy&#8230;gotta love that cocina&#8230;
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		<title>By: zacharythefirst</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-212</link>
		<dc:creator>zacharythefirst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 01:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=54#comment-212</guid>
		<description>I have a few pieces I&#039;d really like to paint this summer.  My dream, along with winning Powerball and being able to lose money on my own gaming store comfortably for 2 decades, is to buy every Reaper mini I always wanted, hire a frickin&#039; pro to paint &#039;em (with the exception of a few I want myself), and have enough professionally painted minis to stage the Battle of Helm&#039;s Deep if I so wanted. :)

Also, I would like the license for Greyhawk.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;212&#039;,&#039;zacharythefirst&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a few pieces I&#8217;d really like to paint this summer.  My dream, along with winning Powerball and being able to lose money on my own gaming store comfortably for 2 decades, is to buy every Reaper mini I always wanted, hire a frickin&#8217; pro to paint &#8216;em (with the exception of a few I want myself), and have enough professionally painted minis to stage the Battle of Helm&#8217;s Deep if I so wanted. <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Also, I would like the license for Greyhawk.
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		<title>By: Kurt "Telas" Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-201</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt "Telas" Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 21:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=54#comment-201</guid>
		<description>Actually, I was thinking in general terms, not just cannon or sapping.

But I missed it on the basis of &quot;unclear answer&quot;.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;201&#039;,&#039;Kurt \&quot;Telas\&quot; Schneider&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I was thinking in general terms, not just cannon or sapping.</p>
<p>But I missed it on the basis of &#8220;unclear answer&#8221;.
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		<title>By: Immolate</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-199</link>
		<dc:creator>Immolate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 20:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My apologies for the many sloppy typos.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;199&#039;,&#039;Immolate&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My apologies for the many sloppy typos.
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		<title>By: Immolate</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator>Immolate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 20:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=54#comment-198</guid>
		<description>In before the first person says &quot;I knew that&quot;. Of course, I did know that. Corners are heavily build and heavily reinforced because they are the most important load-bearing part of a rectangular structure. This makes them more vulnerable to the force of nature that undermining depends upon: gravity. Corners are the fence-posts of angular towers, whereas in a round tower, the entire tower is the fence post. Convex surfaces, as noted, are also more resistant to force. Any force applied to the convex side of a thick wall compresses the materials. The more force, the more compression. There is a point where force becomes greater than compression, but it is much higher than the amount of force that would have to be applied on a span flat wall to affect a breach. 

Curved walls also give every man on the top a good field of fire.

If you want to know what works against cannon-balls, however, look to the Spanish forts in Florida with their sharp angles and massive walls made from stone quarried from compressed shells. It may not be a renewable resource, but it eats cannon-balls nicely. The castillo in St. Augustine, Florida is a perfect example and well-preserved. Admittedly, it&#039;s damned hard to undermind a castle built on sand.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;198&#039;,&#039;Immolate&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In before the first person says &#8220;I knew that&#8221;. Of course, I did know that. Corners are heavily build and heavily reinforced because they are the most important load-bearing part of a rectangular structure. This makes them more vulnerable to the force of nature that undermining depends upon: gravity. Corners are the fence-posts of angular towers, whereas in a round tower, the entire tower is the fence post. Convex surfaces, as noted, are also more resistant to force. Any force applied to the convex side of a thick wall compresses the materials. The more force, the more compression. There is a point where force becomes greater than compression, but it is much higher than the amount of force that would have to be applied on a span flat wall to affect a breach. </p>
<p>Curved walls also give every man on the top a good field of fire.</p>
<p>If you want to know what works against cannon-balls, however, look to the Spanish forts in Florida with their sharp angles and massive walls made from stone quarried from compressed shells. It may not be a renewable resource, but it eats cannon-balls nicely. The castillo in St. Augustine, Florida is a perfect example and well-preserved. Admittedly, it&#8217;s damned hard to undermind a castle built on sand.
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		<title>By: Troy E. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-tidbits-the-eyes-have-it/comment-page-1#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy E. Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 16:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=54#comment-195</guid>
		<description>Martin:
We have a winner! Siege warfare tactics changed tower construction really fast. Of course, I did use the word &quot;dig&quot; when I posed the question.

But rarely is that an issue in a typical D&amp;D adventure. Digging tunnels for months (even in game time) is not most folks idea of fun. So, square towers work out fine in most instances.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;195&#039;,&#039;Troy E. Taylor&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin:<br />
We have a winner! Siege warfare tactics changed tower construction really fast. Of course, I did use the word &#8220;dig&#8221; when I posed the question.</p>
<p>But rarely is that an issue in a typical D&amp;D adventure. Digging tunnels for months (even in game time) is not most folks idea of fun. So, square towers work out fine in most instances.
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