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	<title>Comments on: Troy&#8217;s Crock Pot: A map-making groove</title>
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	<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove</link>
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		<title>By: quatch</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6598</link>
		<dc:creator>quatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6598</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-6593&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Bercilac&lt;/a&gt; - If your maps are small (mine frequently arn&#039;t), put white masking tape (or paper) over the no-show areas and photocopy.

That, or redraw with ink &amp; nib-pen (or brush), with a slightly-off scale (don&#039;t trace). Then you get to add all of the map-art joy.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6598&#039;,&#039;quatch&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-6593' rel="nofollow">@Bercilac</a> &#8211; If your maps are small (mine frequently arn&#8217;t), put white masking tape (or paper) over the no-show areas and photocopy.</p>
<p>That, or redraw with ink &amp; nib-pen (or brush), with a slightly-off scale (don&#8217;t trace). Then you get to add all of the map-art joy.
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		<title>By: Bercilac</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6593</link>
		<dc:creator>Bercilac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6593</guid>
		<description>I find map-making is a big part of world creation for me.  That seems obvious, but let me distinguish between two types of world creation I do: the world creation that piles up in giant unsorted piles, which notes everything from succession rituals in Goblin monarchies to tattooing patterns among orcish tribesmen, and then the world creation that actually results in an adventure.  Putting places on paper (and I&#039;m quite old-school, that way) and looking at the relationships between them suggests obvious plot hooks.  You look at where the players start and start filling in their surroundings with scary places for monsters, less scary places for adventuring, and halfway decent places for R&amp;R.  A good map conveys your world&#039;s politics and history much better than an hour of lecturing your players.

My only real problem with using &quot;ancient technology&quot; is that I often want to make an incomplete copy for my players to use, and that&#039;s a little harder without a computer.  I also tend to get very proud of my finished maps, but don&#039;t get to share them all because they&#039;d give away too much!  (Here be dragons... no, really).&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6593&#039;,&#039;Bercilac&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find map-making is a big part of world creation for me.  That seems obvious, but let me distinguish between two types of world creation I do: the world creation that piles up in giant unsorted piles, which notes everything from succession rituals in Goblin monarchies to tattooing patterns among orcish tribesmen, and then the world creation that actually results in an adventure.  Putting places on paper (and I&#8217;m quite old-school, that way) and looking at the relationships between them suggests obvious plot hooks.  You look at where the players start and start filling in their surroundings with scary places for monsters, less scary places for adventuring, and halfway decent places for R&amp;R.  A good map conveys your world&#8217;s politics and history much better than an hour of lecturing your players.</p>
<p>My only real problem with using &#8220;ancient technology&#8221; is that I often want to make an incomplete copy for my players to use, and that&#8217;s a little harder without a computer.  I also tend to get very proud of my finished maps, but don&#8217;t get to share them all because they&#8217;d give away too much!  (Here be dragons&#8230; no, really).
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		<title>By: Seurat</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6497</link>
		<dc:creator>Seurat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 01:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6497</guid>
		<description>Great article.  I really love the fact that you have links to many of the material we would need embedded in the article.  Thank you for the help!&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6497&#039;,&#039;Seurat&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article.  I really love the fact that you have links to many of the material we would need embedded in the article.  Thank you for the help!
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		<title>By: Aegon</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6478</link>
		<dc:creator>Aegon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6478</guid>
		<description>I have just strated using an updated version of the WoTC Dungeon Tile Mapper (from 3rd E). Here is a yahho group devoted to it. 
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/dungeon_tiles/?yguid=212327341&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6478&#039;,&#039;Aegon&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just strated using an updated version of the WoTC Dungeon Tile Mapper (from 3rd E). Here is a yahho group devoted to it.<br />
<a href="http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/dungeon_tiles/?yguid=212327341" rel="nofollow">http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/dungeon_tiles/?yguid=212327341</a>
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		<title>By: Wednesday, 1 July, 2009 - EN World D&#38;D / RPG News</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6474</link>
		<dc:creator>Wednesday, 1 July, 2009 - EN World D&#38;D / RPG News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6474</guid>
		<description>[...] Map-Making for GMs This article from Gnome Stew is full of tips, links, and practical advice. [...]&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6474&#039;,&#039;Wednesday, 1 July, 2009 - EN World D&amp;D \/ RPG News&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Map-Making for GMs This article from Gnome Stew is full of tips, links, and practical advice. [...]
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		<title>By: John Arcadian</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6458</link>
		<dc:creator>John Arcadian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 04:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6458</guid>
		<description>Timely and awesome article. I just picked up campaign cartographer for myself. I&#039;m going to be taking some time to get really good at map-making over the rest of the summer. I generally draw out crude maps on sheets of paper, or just use dominoes, but I want to get some more high quality stuff done.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6458&#039;,&#039;John Arcadian&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timely and awesome article. I just picked up campaign cartographer for myself. I&#8217;m going to be taking some time to get really good at map-making over the rest of the summer. I generally draw out crude maps on sheets of paper, or just use dominoes, but I want to get some more high quality stuff done.
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		<title>By: Razjah</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6457</link>
		<dc:creator>Razjah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6457</guid>
		<description>I love using maps. Graph paper, dry eraser boards, sticky notes, doodles during a boring class, or whatever- all great. 

The problem that I find with maps is that they lend you to be dependent on them. I think that you can lose the ability to fudge things to make it work better when the maps are too concrete. Of course if you go for realism, then concrete is the way to go. I just don&#039;t like limiting myself by being too attached to my maps.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6457&#039;,&#039;Razjah&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love using maps. Graph paper, dry eraser boards, sticky notes, doodles during a boring class, or whatever- all great. </p>
<p>The problem that I find with maps is that they lend you to be dependent on them. I think that you can lose the ability to fudge things to make it work better when the maps are too concrete. Of course if you go for realism, then concrete is the way to go. I just don&#8217;t like limiting myself by being too attached to my maps.
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		<title>By: Scott Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6456</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6456</guid>
		<description>I enjoy maps-- probably a little too much. I know that some of my early campaign worlds were long on historical movements, but light on adventure.

If you&#039;re looking at a nation scale map, I like tracing its outline at most of the size of a sheet of paper and making photocopies, then filling in. That lets me make mistakes and toss bad copies-- which can be good if you decide to start coloring in terrain.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6456&#039;,&#039;Scott Martin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoy maps&#8211; probably a little too much. I know that some of my early campaign worlds were long on historical movements, but light on adventure.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re looking at a nation scale map, I like tracing its outline at most of the size of a sheet of paper and making photocopies, then filling in. That lets me make mistakes and toss bad copies&#8211; which can be good if you decide to start coloring in terrain.
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		<title>By: quatch</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6455</link>
		<dc:creator>quatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6455</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-6454&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Rafe&lt;/a&gt; - ArcMap 9.2, student edition (its a wee expensive otherwise). I use arcview for most everything as the multiple layers at a time is a must. I&#039;ve done a bit of DEM interpolation and used the 3D flyover with some success. I&#039;ve been toying around with Quantum gis, which is open source and should be able to do the same, but I&#039;ve not learned it yet.

My large maps in a straight image editor, just got too large, and my computer couldn&#039;t handle them. I either had to choose a low resolution, or a small area, neither of which was desirable. They looked quite snazzy though.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6455&#039;,&#039;quatch&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-6454' rel="nofollow">@Rafe</a> &#8211; ArcMap 9.2, student edition (its a wee expensive otherwise). I use arcview for most everything as the multiple layers at a time is a must. I&#8217;ve done a bit of DEM interpolation and used the 3D flyover with some success. I&#8217;ve been toying around with Quantum gis, which is open source and should be able to do the same, but I&#8217;ve not learned it yet.</p>
<p>My large maps in a straight image editor, just got too large, and my computer couldn&#8217;t handle them. I either had to choose a low resolution, or a small area, neither of which was desirable. They looked quite snazzy though.
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		<title>By: Rafe</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6454</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6454</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-6450&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@quatch&lt;/a&gt; - &lt;i&gt;Now I just use arcmap.&lt;/i&gt;

Which actual program is this?  ArcView, ArcEditor, etc?  Looks handy!&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6454&#039;,&#039;Rafe&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-6450' rel="nofollow">@quatch</a> &#8211; <i>Now I just use arcmap.</i></p>
<p>Which actual program is this?  ArcView, ArcEditor, etc?  Looks handy!
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		<title>By: Rafe</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6453</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6453</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://newbiedm.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Newbie DM&lt;/a&gt; had a decent article on &lt;a href=&quot;http://newbiedm.com/2009/06/24/a-couple-of-free-mapping-and-landscape-visualization-tools-for-new-dms/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;mapping&lt;/a&gt;.  I have yet to try the first program he offered up, AutoRealm, but I found Terragen to be confusion personified.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6453&#039;,&#039;Rafe&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://newbiedm.com" rel="nofollow">Newbie DM</a> had a decent article on <a href="http://newbiedm.com/2009/06/24/a-couple-of-free-mapping-and-landscape-visualization-tools-for-new-dms/" rel="nofollow">mapping</a>.  I have yet to try the first program he offered up, AutoRealm, but I found Terragen to be confusion personified.
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		<title>By: philipstephen</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6452</link>
		<dc:creator>philipstephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6452</guid>
		<description>The place to go for a bazillion maps by talented folks with awesome advice for making your own is http://www.cartographersguild.com/

I am in love with this resource and use it a lot for my game.

Phil.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6452&#039;,&#039;philipstephen&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The place to go for a bazillion maps by talented folks with awesome advice for making your own is <a href="http://www.cartographersguild.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cartographersguild.com/</a></p>
<p>I am in love with this resource and use it a lot for my game.</p>
<p>Phil.
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		<title>By: Patrigan</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6451</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6451</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the ideas.

I really like the Chalkboard one. That&#039;s something I can work with, even when designing cities!&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6451&#039;,&#039;Patrigan&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the ideas.</p>
<p>I really like the Chalkboard one. That&#8217;s something I can work with, even when designing cities!
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		<title>By: quatch</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6450</link>
		<dc:creator>quatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6450</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I&#039;m a map nerd.

I used to draw all of my campaign maps in photoshop(equivalent) with layers for all of the different features: urbanization, forest, dungeon sites, roads, etc.

Now I just use arcmap. Sure, its a wee bit of overkill, but for having all of your maps at whatever scale you want, it can&#039;t be beat.

That said, for around the table play, using the 1&quot; grid paper pads for meetings (the 1 square meter or so things). Toss a clear sheet of acrylic over it, and you can mark it up with whiteboard markers, and it comes with a grid already. A set of coloured sharpies goes a long way.

As to actual regional mapping, spend time looking at real world maps. Have a look at a basic physical geography or intro geology textbook. Mountains and rivers don&#039;t just happen at random, and if you want something that looks real you have to respect certain placements. Think about how weird Moridor looked with that square box of mountains.

Also consider scale. Without knowledge of how to calculate longitude, distances on maps were fairly approximate, especially over water. (look at early maps of north America, and how that white space in the middle lead it it being a very wide continent). Have a look at Inuit maps where scale is dependent on the importance of the feature, not the size of the feature. Look at people&#039;s quick drawn map to the corner store. Perhaps a fixed scale isn&#039;t the most period or flavourful option.

And finally, make handouts of maps. Probably with a lot less detail than your actual campaign map, but it adds a lot to the players to have, hold, and annotate their own map. Especially when it is just a little wrong. Cheap maps may take liberties.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6450&#039;,&#039;quatch&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I&#8217;m a map nerd.</p>
<p>I used to draw all of my campaign maps in photoshop(equivalent) with layers for all of the different features: urbanization, forest, dungeon sites, roads, etc.</p>
<p>Now I just use arcmap. Sure, its a wee bit of overkill, but for having all of your maps at whatever scale you want, it can&#8217;t be beat.</p>
<p>That said, for around the table play, using the 1&#8243; grid paper pads for meetings (the 1 square meter or so things). Toss a clear sheet of acrylic over it, and you can mark it up with whiteboard markers, and it comes with a grid already. A set of coloured sharpies goes a long way.</p>
<p>As to actual regional mapping, spend time looking at real world maps. Have a look at a basic physical geography or intro geology textbook. Mountains and rivers don&#8217;t just happen at random, and if you want something that looks real you have to respect certain placements. Think about how weird Moridor looked with that square box of mountains.</p>
<p>Also consider scale. Without knowledge of how to calculate longitude, distances on maps were fairly approximate, especially over water. (look at early maps of north America, and how that white space in the middle lead it it being a very wide continent). Have a look at Inuit maps where scale is dependent on the importance of the feature, not the size of the feature. Look at people&#8217;s quick drawn map to the corner store. Perhaps a fixed scale isn&#8217;t the most period or flavourful option.</p>
<p>And finally, make handouts of maps. Probably with a lot less detail than your actual campaign map, but it adds a lot to the players to have, hold, and annotate their own map. Especially when it is just a little wrong. Cheap maps may take liberties.
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		<title>By: blalien</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/troys-crock-pot-a-map-making-groove/comment-page-1#comment-6449</link>
		<dc:creator>blalien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4242#comment-6449</guid>
		<description>Thank you for writing this article.  My 4e campaign is like a half-sandbox.  As in, the players have a specific mission, but instead of having a series of plot events, I reason out what each NPC would do in the current situation and improv it.  I would love to present my PCs with a nice map of the continent so they get a better grasp of their options.  Unfortunately, yeah, no skill.  If you wrote up an article explaining, in detail, how to make respectable overland maps with little drawing skill, you would officially win the D&amp;D blog game.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6449&#039;,&#039;blalien&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for writing this article.  My 4e campaign is like a half-sandbox.  As in, the players have a specific mission, but instead of having a series of plot events, I reason out what each NPC would do in the current situation and improv it.  I would love to present my PCs with a nice map of the continent so they get a better grasp of their options.  Unfortunately, yeah, no skill.  If you wrote up an article explaining, in detail, how to make respectable overland maps with little drawing skill, you would officially win the D&amp;D blog game.
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