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	<title>Comments on: Suggestion Pot: Recurring Adversary</title>
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		<title>By: Nojo</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9389</link>
		<dc:creator>Nojo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 19:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9389</guid>
		<description>After an adventure is over, I like to scan the survivor NPCs for possible reuse later. As allies, rivals, or enemies.

I&#039;m just concluding (1 more session to go) a long running Dark Heresy game. A Dark Eldar corsair Captain had torn up the party bad in an early adventure, and he got away. I kept bringing him back. I had him hire assassins to kill player characters as well as showing up from time to time. 

Think small world, even if you have a Galaxy to explore. The PCs keep running into the same folk, because these people are movers and shakers and have reasons to show up again.

Even if you use published adventures, see if you can&#039;t swap in survivors from previous games for NPCs in the current one. My players love to meet them again, it gives them a connection to the game world.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9389&#039;,&#039;Nojo&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After an adventure is over, I like to scan the survivor NPCs for possible reuse later. As allies, rivals, or enemies.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just concluding (1 more session to go) a long running Dark Heresy game. A Dark Eldar corsair Captain had torn up the party bad in an early adventure, and he got away. I kept bringing him back. I had him hire assassins to kill player characters as well as showing up from time to time. </p>
<p>Think small world, even if you have a Galaxy to explore. The PCs keep running into the same folk, because these people are movers and shakers and have reasons to show up again.</p>
<p>Even if you use published adventures, see if you can&#8217;t swap in survivors from previous games for NPCs in the current one. My players love to meet them again, it gives them a connection to the game world.
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		<title>By: Nateal Falk</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9367</link>
		<dc:creator>Nateal Falk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 06:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9367</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to agree with point number 2, here. ^.^

In one of my two current Star Wars Saga Edition games, we were facing a recurring villain who called herself &quot;Lady Fury.&quot;  I won&#039;t bog this comment down with the details, but basically, our campaign is in an Alternate History setting, the deviating point being that Obi Wan Kenobi didn&#039;t make it to Luke in time, and he ended up being killed by the sandpeople.  Somewhere along the line, Leia Skywalker turned to the dark side and became Lady Fury.

The recurring villain started in the beginning of the campaign, but we never really met her.  She sent many different people to us, and each one would inform us that &quot;Lady Fury wanted to meet with us.&quot;  Each time, our party would somehow manage to destroy whatever was trying to take us off the path we were following.

The final showdown with Leia was actually pretty terrifying.  The fact that approximately every other session we were hearing about Lady Fury made the final encounter a lot more exciting and sent the adrenaline running.  However, knowing my party, if Lady Fury had been presented to us before the plot was ready, we would have obliterated her.  (We took on and desecrated a CL 7 when we were a party of lvl 3.)  So our GM was smart to send mooks and messengers until the plot was ready for us to meet and defeat the real Lady.

Recurring Adversaries can be a great addition to your campaign, but don&#039;t overuse them.  If we&#039;d been hearing about Lady Fury EVERY SINGLE SESSION (as opposed to the nice balance our GM hit with every other/every third), we probably would have gone out of our way to find and kill her.  ^.^&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9367&#039;,&#039;Nateal Falk&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to agree with point number 2, here. ^.^</p>
<p>In one of my two current Star Wars Saga Edition games, we were facing a recurring villain who called herself &#8220;Lady Fury.&#8221;  I won&#8217;t bog this comment down with the details, but basically, our campaign is in an Alternate History setting, the deviating point being that Obi Wan Kenobi didn&#8217;t make it to Luke in time, and he ended up being killed by the sandpeople.  Somewhere along the line, Leia Skywalker turned to the dark side and became Lady Fury.</p>
<p>The recurring villain started in the beginning of the campaign, but we never really met her.  She sent many different people to us, and each one would inform us that &#8220;Lady Fury wanted to meet with us.&#8221;  Each time, our party would somehow manage to destroy whatever was trying to take us off the path we were following.</p>
<p>The final showdown with Leia was actually pretty terrifying.  The fact that approximately every other session we were hearing about Lady Fury made the final encounter a lot more exciting and sent the adrenaline running.  However, knowing my party, if Lady Fury had been presented to us before the plot was ready, we would have obliterated her.  (We took on and desecrated a CL 7 when we were a party of lvl 3.)  So our GM was smart to send mooks and messengers until the plot was ready for us to meet and defeat the real Lady.</p>
<p>Recurring Adversaries can be a great addition to your campaign, but don&#8217;t overuse them.  If we&#8217;d been hearing about Lady Fury EVERY SINGLE SESSION (as opposed to the nice balance our GM hit with every other/every third), we probably would have gone out of our way to find and kill her.  ^.^
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		<title>By: unwinder</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9365</link>
		<dc:creator>unwinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9365</guid>
		<description>I disagree with everyone who disagrees with me. Having a favorite villain return despite ridiculous odds does not mean that the players don&#039;t have any control. You can foil the villain without killing him forever, and he definitely shouldn&#039;t come back until his current plan is completely destroyed.

But if I&#039;m going to come into a new storyline, and there&#039;s a new evil plan, and I&#039;ve got a choice between taking a chance on a new villain who I have no history with, and seeing a favorite old villain come up, I&#039;d rather see a familiar face. Even if it means I didn&#039;t kill him all the way before.

Also, most players seem to believe that they can and should solve every problem by killing somebody. I don&#039;t want to belittle or negate my players&#039; accomplishments, but I do try to send a message that killing stuff isn&#039;t typically the ideal solution.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9365&#039;,&#039;unwinder&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with everyone who disagrees with me. Having a favorite villain return despite ridiculous odds does not mean that the players don&#8217;t have any control. You can foil the villain without killing him forever, and he definitely shouldn&#8217;t come back until his current plan is completely destroyed.</p>
<p>But if I&#8217;m going to come into a new storyline, and there&#8217;s a new evil plan, and I&#8217;ve got a choice between taking a chance on a new villain who I have no history with, and seeing a favorite old villain come up, I&#8217;d rather see a familiar face. Even if it means I didn&#8217;t kill him all the way before.</p>
<p>Also, most players seem to believe that they can and should solve every problem by killing somebody. I don&#8217;t want to belittle or negate my players&#8217; accomplishments, but I do try to send a message that killing stuff isn&#8217;t typically the ideal solution.
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		<title>By: Richichi Adventure Seeds : Guang Keshar</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9356</link>
		<dc:creator>Richichi Adventure Seeds : Guang Keshar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9356</guid>
		<description>[...] Suggestion Pot: Recurring Adversary (gnomestew.com) [...]&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9356&#039;,&#039;Richichi Adventure Seeds : Guang Keshar&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Suggestion Pot: Recurring Adversary (gnomestew.com) [...]
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		<title>By: scruffylad</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9330</link>
		<dc:creator>scruffylad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 06:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9330</guid>
		<description>A recurring villain can be a lot of fun, giving your players something to focus on, getting them more involved than with the sometimes yawn-inducing weekly baddie. 

But it&#039;s not always easy to &quot;make&quot; a recurring villain who&#039;s worth it. I&#039;d agree that sometimes you can just make potential recurring villains, and hope the players latch on to one. (Otherwise, they&#039;re just repeat annoyances.) 

Generally, I figure I can explain their survival by thinking ahead. Make the bad guy smart, make the bad guy plan ahead, have contingencies, etc. (I don&#039;t know about everybody else, but I don&#039;t always flesh out my regular bad guys to that level. Maybe plan out a few things, but not that much ahead.)

Any time you bring a bad guy back to life, you need to be careful. If the characters are running around getting raised every other adventure, they can&#039;t really expect death to be cheap for them, but dear for the NPCs. Still, there&#039;s something unsatisfying about killing the same bad guy over and over and over. Maybe one interesting raise/recurrence, tops. But over and over is just dull. At some point, it might be better to have a lieutenant take over, turn it into an organization that&#039;s the bad guy. Or an ideology. Or whatever. Maybe people carrying on the struggle in the name of the bad guy. 

Or, just throw a few more into the mix, and see which one rises to the top, to become the new recurring villain. :)&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9330&#039;,&#039;scruffylad&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A recurring villain can be a lot of fun, giving your players something to focus on, getting them more involved than with the sometimes yawn-inducing weekly baddie. </p>
<p>But it&#8217;s not always easy to &#8220;make&#8221; a recurring villain who&#8217;s worth it. I&#8217;d agree that sometimes you can just make potential recurring villains, and hope the players latch on to one. (Otherwise, they&#8217;re just repeat annoyances.) </p>
<p>Generally, I figure I can explain their survival by thinking ahead. Make the bad guy smart, make the bad guy plan ahead, have contingencies, etc. (I don&#8217;t know about everybody else, but I don&#8217;t always flesh out my regular bad guys to that level. Maybe plan out a few things, but not that much ahead.)</p>
<p>Any time you bring a bad guy back to life, you need to be careful. If the characters are running around getting raised every other adventure, they can&#8217;t really expect death to be cheap for them, but dear for the NPCs. Still, there&#8217;s something unsatisfying about killing the same bad guy over and over and over. Maybe one interesting raise/recurrence, tops. But over and over is just dull. At some point, it might be better to have a lieutenant take over, turn it into an organization that&#8217;s the bad guy. Or an ideology. Or whatever. Maybe people carrying on the struggle in the name of the bad guy. </p>
<p>Or, just throw a few more into the mix, and see which one rises to the top, to become the new recurring villain. <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />
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		<title>By: Alnakar</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9329</link>
		<dc:creator>Alnakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 03:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9329</guid>
		<description>In response to unwinder, I have to agree with Bevin. Further, if you remove the consequences of players&#039; actions, it&#039;s not really a role-playing game anymore. If everybody at the table has bought into the idea that what you&#039;re playing is a storytelling game (and that it&#039;s clearly you that&#039;s telling the story), then that&#039;s fine, but otherwise you have to let enemies stay dead sometimes.

In response to the column in general, I think that overarching villains are a great idea. I&#039;ve always had trouble implementing them with my group of players, partially because they really dislike it when the enemy gets away, but also because I find it hard to keep it from being heavy-handed (see above). I&#039;ll definitely have to take a close look at this article for potential in my game.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9329&#039;,&#039;Alnakar&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to unwinder, I have to agree with Bevin. Further, if you remove the consequences of players&#8217; actions, it&#8217;s not really a role-playing game anymore. If everybody at the table has bought into the idea that what you&#8217;re playing is a storytelling game (and that it&#8217;s clearly you that&#8217;s telling the story), then that&#8217;s fine, but otherwise you have to let enemies stay dead sometimes.</p>
<p>In response to the column in general, I think that overarching villains are a great idea. I&#8217;ve always had trouble implementing them with my group of players, partially because they really dislike it when the enemy gets away, but also because I find it hard to keep it from being heavy-handed (see above). I&#8217;ll definitely have to take a close look at this article for potential in my game.
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		<title>By: Scott Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9328</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 19:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9328</guid>
		<description>Depending on your world, you can let the NPC die, but still reuse them. That gives them a taste of victory, and keeps the NPC off of the suspect list for a while after. 

Some ideas are cloning in a sci-fi universe, soul transfer in fantasy or horror, and weird powers in a supers universe. In many of those cases, the villain may not even realize that he has been cloned, or his soul is forfeit...&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9328&#039;,&#039;Scott Martin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depending on your world, you can let the NPC die, but still reuse them. That gives them a taste of victory, and keeps the NPC off of the suspect list for a while after. </p>
<p>Some ideas are cloning in a sci-fi universe, soul transfer in fantasy or horror, and weird powers in a supers universe. In many of those cases, the villain may not even realize that he has been cloned, or his soul is forfeit&#8230;
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		<title>By: Don Mappin</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9327</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Mappin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9327</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been trying this in my current game with mixed results. First, I use the term &quot;adversary&quot; to mean actively working against the PCs. Mine is more of a &quot;foil&quot;; their actions impact the PCs but rarely are they working against them (directly).

It started off well but my players tend to treat all NPCs in my games like shit. It&#039;s horribly frustrating. With one recurring foil -- which was requested by one player in particular -- it&#039;s turned into outright lack of interest in interacting with them. Sure, it&#039;s entirely in character but it adds nothing to the game and cuts off my work to make a compelling story at the knees. There&#039;s a general lack of interest at the table to peer into the motivation of the characters they meet.

So I&#039;m at the point of dropping the (requested) foil or turning them into an outright adversary. If the players are going to treat them as such then I might as well have the NPCs push back and stand up for themselves.

So be aware that this concept isn&#039;t necessarily suited for all groups.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9327&#039;,&#039;Don Mappin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been trying this in my current game with mixed results. First, I use the term &#8220;adversary&#8221; to mean actively working against the PCs. Mine is more of a &#8220;foil&#8221;; their actions impact the PCs but rarely are they working against them (directly).</p>
<p>It started off well but my players tend to treat all NPCs in my games like shit. It&#8217;s horribly frustrating. With one recurring foil &#8212; which was requested by one player in particular &#8212; it&#8217;s turned into outright lack of interest in interacting with them. Sure, it&#8217;s entirely in character but it adds nothing to the game and cuts off my work to make a compelling story at the knees. There&#8217;s a general lack of interest at the table to peer into the motivation of the characters they meet.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m at the point of dropping the (requested) foil or turning them into an outright adversary. If the players are going to treat them as such then I might as well have the NPCs push back and stand up for themselves.</p>
<p>So be aware that this concept isn&#8217;t necessarily suited for all groups.
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		<title>By: TwoShedsJackson</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9326</link>
		<dc:creator>TwoShedsJackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9326</guid>
		<description>Variations: (framed as villains but would work for rivals too)

Rumors float about that the villain has returned, but they are false.  It might be an old rumor (made obsolete when the heroes destroyed the villain), or deliberate disinformation, or an imposter, or a case of mistaken identity.

Alternatively, the villain is returned but:

is so far reduced in power as to be a husk of his/her/its former self (Saruman in Hobbiton), or

has no memory of previous events, or

is reformed (like a certain character in Heroes), or

is forced to &quot;behave&quot; by a more powerful being (Q in some episodes of Star Trek TNG)&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9326&#039;,&#039;TwoShedsJackson&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Variations: (framed as villains but would work for rivals too)</p>
<p>Rumors float about that the villain has returned, but they are false.  It might be an old rumor (made obsolete when the heroes destroyed the villain), or deliberate disinformation, or an imposter, or a case of mistaken identity.</p>
<p>Alternatively, the villain is returned but:</p>
<p>is so far reduced in power as to be a husk of his/her/its former self (Saruman in Hobbiton), or</p>
<p>has no memory of previous events, or</p>
<p>is reformed (like a certain character in Heroes), or</p>
<p>is forced to &#8220;behave&#8221; by a more powerful being (Q in some episodes of Star Trek TNG)
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		<title>By: Bevin Flannery</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9325</link>
		<dc:creator>Bevin Flannery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9325</guid>
		<description>unwinder:  &quot;Pay attention to which enemies resonate with the players the most, and then bring them back. No matter what. Even if they’re deader than dead at the end of the adventure, bring them back. Wait until the time is right, of course, but bring them back no matter what.&quot;

Speaking only for myself as a player, I respectfully disagree with this idea.  Nothing would frustrate me more, and really sour me on the game, than to realize that no matter what the players do -- no matter how carefully they plan, no matter how thoroughly they go about destroying the villain -- it will make absolutely zero difference in the end.  

This might work for some groups, or for some types of stories (ones where the players have signed up for the comic book/soap opera convention of &quot;the bad guy is never REALLY down and out).

I have no problem with the GM making it challenging to take out the bad guy, such that s/he narrowly escapes before the PCs finally figure out how to take him/her out, or keeps the heroes at a distance and instead loses minions.  But the &quot;bring &#039;em back NO MATTER WHAT&quot; just doesn&#039;t work for me as a player.  It would thoroughly piss me off.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9325&#039;,&#039;Bevin Flannery&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>unwinder:  &#8220;Pay attention to which enemies resonate with the players the most, and then bring them back. No matter what. Even if they’re deader than dead at the end of the adventure, bring them back. Wait until the time is right, of course, but bring them back no matter what.&#8221;</p>
<p>Speaking only for myself as a player, I respectfully disagree with this idea.  Nothing would frustrate me more, and really sour me on the game, than to realize that no matter what the players do &#8212; no matter how carefully they plan, no matter how thoroughly they go about destroying the villain &#8212; it will make absolutely zero difference in the end.  </p>
<p>This might work for some groups, or for some types of stories (ones where the players have signed up for the comic book/soap opera convention of &#8220;the bad guy is never REALLY down and out).</p>
<p>I have no problem with the GM making it challenging to take out the bad guy, such that s/he narrowly escapes before the PCs finally figure out how to take him/her out, or keeps the heroes at a distance and instead loses minions.  But the &#8220;bring &#8216;em back NO MATTER WHAT&#8221; just doesn&#8217;t work for me as a player.  It would thoroughly piss me off.
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		<title>By: evil</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9324</link>
		<dc:creator>evil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9324</guid>
		<description>One of my favorite ways to make a recurring villain stay alive and fresh through long campaigns is to pit them in a parallel standing to the heroes.  For instance, my PCs are tracking a man to bring to justice in a local town.  On his trail also are the Black Brothers, who are trying to kill the criminal.  This way the PCs aren&#039;t directly attempting to kill or stop the Black Brothers, but are constantly being hounded by a villain (or villains) who use different methods of getting the job done.

The villain team idea is another way to go about it.  Sure, Superman defeated Lex Luthor, but the rest of the Legion of Doom is still out there.  They might even break Luthor out of jail for a future plotline.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9324&#039;,&#039;evil&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my favorite ways to make a recurring villain stay alive and fresh through long campaigns is to pit them in a parallel standing to the heroes.  For instance, my PCs are tracking a man to bring to justice in a local town.  On his trail also are the Black Brothers, who are trying to kill the criminal.  This way the PCs aren&#8217;t directly attempting to kill or stop the Black Brothers, but are constantly being hounded by a villain (or villains) who use different methods of getting the job done.</p>
<p>The villain team idea is another way to go about it.  Sure, Superman defeated Lex Luthor, but the rest of the Legion of Doom is still out there.  They might even break Luthor out of jail for a future plotline.
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		<title>By: TwoShedsJackson</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9323</link>
		<dc:creator>TwoShedsJackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9323</guid>
		<description>Lugh said: &quot;One very important tip to using a recurring villain effectively is to allow the players to still feel as though they win.&quot;

A great example of this is Adelai Niska from Firefly.  Even though they would surely have run into him again had the series continued, the last encounter the crew of the Serenity had with him must have been a tremendous blow.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9323&#039;,&#039;TwoShedsJackson&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lugh said: &#8220;One very important tip to using a recurring villain effectively is to allow the players to still feel as though they win.&#8221;</p>
<p>A great example of this is Adelai Niska from Firefly.  Even though they would surely have run into him again had the series continued, the last encounter the crew of the Serenity had with him must have been a tremendous blow.
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		<title>By: callin</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9322</link>
		<dc:creator>callin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 14:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9322</guid>
		<description>By way of my personal example, I have Sid. Sid is the twin brother of one of the player characters; the bad version. 
Initial &quot;contact&quot; consisted of the players being mistaken for the twin, who had usurped his good name in a nearby town. Players were also chasing a saboteur who was weakening the town for an invading army the players were there to warn people about. 
The players had frequent run-ins with people thinking he was the twin. In effect this was &quot;encountering&quot; the villain.
Eventually they met the twin and he proposed they join his attempt to help the invading army. They declined and he gained full villain status when they attacked him. I used a GM trick and had him teleport away. The players knew I was allowing him to escape, but they were ok with it this first time. I will not use this trick again. I reinforced his ability to teleport later as they invaded his hideout and it was populated with humanoids who could also teleport (he was not there). It reinforced his ability to teleport without making it look less like a GM trick.
Since then they have been travelling in the same direction, as he and they are both going toward the same city. At the next village they met his handiwork when the leader of the village was killed in the night. While they had no direct confrontation they &quot;had an encounter with him&quot;.
Thereafter they rescued some villagers from a local evil mage only to discover that Sid was trying to hire the mage for his own purposes.
Basically from this point on they will not meet Sid face-to-face until I am ready to allow him to be killed off, but they will continue to see his handiwork.

My Blog- http://bigballofnofun.blogspot.com/&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9322&#039;,&#039;callin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By way of my personal example, I have Sid. Sid is the twin brother of one of the player characters; the bad version.<br />
Initial &#8220;contact&#8221; consisted of the players being mistaken for the twin, who had usurped his good name in a nearby town. Players were also chasing a saboteur who was weakening the town for an invading army the players were there to warn people about.<br />
The players had frequent run-ins with people thinking he was the twin. In effect this was &#8220;encountering&#8221; the villain.<br />
Eventually they met the twin and he proposed they join his attempt to help the invading army. They declined and he gained full villain status when they attacked him. I used a GM trick and had him teleport away. The players knew I was allowing him to escape, but they were ok with it this first time. I will not use this trick again. I reinforced his ability to teleport later as they invaded his hideout and it was populated with humanoids who could also teleport (he was not there). It reinforced his ability to teleport without making it look less like a GM trick.<br />
Since then they have been travelling in the same direction, as he and they are both going toward the same city. At the next village they met his handiwork when the leader of the village was killed in the night. While they had no direct confrontation they &#8220;had an encounter with him&#8221;.<br />
Thereafter they rescued some villagers from a local evil mage only to discover that Sid was trying to hire the mage for his own purposes.<br />
Basically from this point on they will not meet Sid face-to-face until I am ready to allow him to be killed off, but they will continue to see his handiwork.</p>
<p>My Blog- <a href="http://bigballofnofun.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://bigballofnofun.blogspot.com/</a>
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		<title>By: DrummingDM</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9320</link>
		<dc:creator>DrummingDM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9320</guid>
		<description>I was lucky enough for my players to create a recurring villain for me in my last campaign.  An NPC I intended to be a minor villain, maybe to annoy them for a handful of sessions, really drew their interest.  They decided to foil his schemes on their own, and really actively *hated* the guy.  So...I decided that he&#039;d escape the PCs attempt to stop his plans and make their lives miserable from afar.  It worked great, and I think the catharsis of killing the guy as the BBEG of the entire campaign was awesome.  It really ended up taking the campaign the in a direction I had not intended for it to go, but it felt far more organic that way.

So, I guess this is a long-winded way of saying that recurring villains are awesome, and don&#039;t try to force a villain - make a villain annoying enough, and if the PCs want an arch-nemesis, they&#039;ll create one, and loathe him/her all the more for it.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9320&#039;,&#039;DrummingDM&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was lucky enough for my players to create a recurring villain for me in my last campaign.  An NPC I intended to be a minor villain, maybe to annoy them for a handful of sessions, really drew their interest.  They decided to foil his schemes on their own, and really actively *hated* the guy.  So&#8230;I decided that he&#8217;d escape the PCs attempt to stop his plans and make their lives miserable from afar.  It worked great, and I think the catharsis of killing the guy as the BBEG of the entire campaign was awesome.  It really ended up taking the campaign the in a direction I had not intended for it to go, but it felt far more organic that way.</p>
<p>So, I guess this is a long-winded way of saying that recurring villains are awesome, and don&#8217;t try to force a villain &#8211; make a villain annoying enough, and if the PCs want an arch-nemesis, they&#8217;ll create one, and loathe him/her all the more for it.
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		<title>By: Lugh</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/suggestion-pot-recurring-adversary/comment-page-1#comment-9319</link>
		<dc:creator>Lugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=6378#comment-9319</guid>
		<description>One very important tip to using a recurring villain effectively is to allow the players to still feel as though they win.  Have a central &quot;big bad&quot; with a rotating cast of expendable lieutenants (it worked well for Blofeld).  Have the point of contention between the big bad and the PCs be only one facet of the big bad&#039;s plan and/or resources (e.g., the PCs are superheroes protecting Center City, the big bad is a global corporate conglomerate, the PCs can always beat the big bad at home but don&#039;t have enough of an away game to wipe them out on their turf).  If you&#039;re really up to some complex plotting, have the big bad&#039;s fortunes gradually fall, and have their plans become more and more desperate.  The PCs will be able to see that they are winning both the short game and the long game, even if they aren&#039;t able to put a decisive end to the villain just yet.  (Look at Buffy vs. Spike, at least before season 6.)  A desperate villain is also more willing to lash out at the heroes in ways that cause them direct pain, even if it isn&#039;t profitable.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;9319&#039;,&#039;Lugh&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One very important tip to using a recurring villain effectively is to allow the players to still feel as though they win.  Have a central &#8220;big bad&#8221; with a rotating cast of expendable lieutenants (it worked well for Blofeld).  Have the point of contention between the big bad and the PCs be only one facet of the big bad&#8217;s plan and/or resources (e.g., the PCs are superheroes protecting Center City, the big bad is a global corporate conglomerate, the PCs can always beat the big bad at home but don&#8217;t have enough of an away game to wipe them out on their turf).  If you&#8217;re really up to some complex plotting, have the big bad&#8217;s fortunes gradually fall, and have their plans become more and more desperate.  The PCs will be able to see that they are winning both the short game and the long game, even if they aren&#8217;t able to put a decisive end to the villain just yet.  (Look at Buffy vs. Spike, at least before season 6.)  A desperate villain is also more willing to lash out at the heroes in ways that cause them direct pain, even if it isn&#8217;t profitable.
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