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	<title>Comments on: So You Want to GM a Roleplaying-Intensive Game, Part 1</title>
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		<title>By: Martin Ralya</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-206</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Ralya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 21:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-206</guid>
		<description>@LordVreeg re: social mechanics: Amen to that! I immediately thought of &lt;em&gt;Burning Wheel&lt;/em&gt;, which has stellar social mechanics -- including one of the highlights of every session I&#039;ve played, the Duel of Wits. DoW handles PC vs. PC and PC vs. NPC in-character debates incredibly well, and makes them a blast to play. Every game should include stuff like that.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;206&#039;,&#039;Martin Ralya&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@LordVreeg re: social mechanics: Amen to that! I immediately thought of <em>Burning Wheel</em>, which has stellar social mechanics &#8212; including one of the highlights of every session I&#8217;ve played, the Duel of Wits. DoW handles PC vs. PC and PC vs. NPC in-character debates incredibly well, and makes them a blast to play. Every game should include stuff like that.
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		<title>By: LordVreeg</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>LordVreeg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 14:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-187</guid>
		<description>Ah.  Yes, quick and simple will never mesh with &#039;mechanics-intensive&#039;.  I have to agree there.

I use a skill-based system with dozens of social skills, and experience is kept within each skill.  So when a clever player uses &#039;Contact&#039; and &#039;Local customs, Igbar&#039; to find a high-quality Alchemist in that small city, they gain experience in those skills.  We also have the house rules that allow players to ask for roleplaying awards in those skills (which is often the funniest part of every session).

But I would be lying if I called it quick or simple.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;187&#039;,&#039;LordVreeg&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah.  Yes, quick and simple will never mesh with &#8216;mechanics-intensive&#8217;.  I have to agree there.</p>
<p>I use a skill-based system with dozens of social skills, and experience is kept within each skill.  So when a clever player uses &#8216;Contact&#8217; and &#8216;Local customs, Igbar&#8217; to find a high-quality Alchemist in that small city, they gain experience in those skills.  We also have the house rules that allow players to ask for roleplaying awards in those skills (which is often the funniest part of every session).</p>
<p>But I would be lying if I called it quick or simple.
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		<title>By: darkliquid</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>darkliquid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 06:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-167</guid>
		<description>I have to agree, though I&#039;ve yet to come across a system that was quick and simple to use but provided decent, usable mechanics for social interactions and character growth.

The trouble with most systems, especially ones that use levels or &#039;points&#039; as a means of tracking character progression is that they need something concrete to base that progression on. How well someone roleplays is entirely subjective, while how many monsters they kill of rating X compared to the players current rating is cold hard numbers that can be easily turned into appropriate resources for character progression.

That&#039;s why I tend to stick to freeform for most things, because it&#039;s hard to keep subjective actions from being swallowed by other mechanical rules. It&#039;s an all or none situation for me with rules, so I tend to lean towards none.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;167&#039;,&#039;darkliquid&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree, though I&#8217;ve yet to come across a system that was quick and simple to use but provided decent, usable mechanics for social interactions and character growth.</p>
<p>The trouble with most systems, especially ones that use levels or &#8216;points&#8217; as a means of tracking character progression is that they need something concrete to base that progression on. How well someone roleplays is entirely subjective, while how many monsters they kill of rating X compared to the players current rating is cold hard numbers that can be easily turned into appropriate resources for character progression.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I tend to stick to freeform for most things, because it&#8217;s hard to keep subjective actions from being swallowed by other mechanical rules. It&#8217;s an all or none situation for me with rules, so I tend to lean towards none.
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		<title>By: LordVreeg</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-142</link>
		<dc:creator>LordVreeg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 18:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-142</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t find it as necessary to go to a mechanics-lite game in order to GM a more reolplaying-intensive game.  I do, however, agree that a very small amount of systems have the right balance for this type of game.
The CBG had a long-running thread called &#039;Combat vs. Everything&#039;, and one of the major concusions reached revolved around the idea that you need to choose a system that mirrors the type of game you want to play.   And few games place anywhere near the same emphasis on the social interaction skills as the do on combat or magic.  In that same continuum, most magic systems in games focus on combat or adventuring.  Finding a game whose magic system focuses on the social interactions, actual town/population-center useful, and long term personal growth of the characters is rare.

Of course, rules do add time.  

But I just wanted to throw it out there that &#039;Roleplaying-intensive&#039; games can actually benfit from a &#039;mechanics-intensive&#039; system, if the mechanics in question are not combat heavy, but emphasize social skills and character-growth.

(Of course, this often drives one to abandon all other rule systems and mke one&#039;s own, but that is a different thread.)&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;142&#039;,&#039;LordVreeg&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t find it as necessary to go to a mechanics-lite game in order to GM a more reolplaying-intensive game.  I do, however, agree that a very small amount of systems have the right balance for this type of game.<br />
The CBG had a long-running thread called &#8216;Combat vs. Everything&#8217;, and one of the major concusions reached revolved around the idea that you need to choose a system that mirrors the type of game you want to play.   And few games place anywhere near the same emphasis on the social interaction skills as the do on combat or magic.  In that same continuum, most magic systems in games focus on combat or adventuring.  Finding a game whose magic system focuses on the social interactions, actual town/population-center useful, and long term personal growth of the characters is rare.</p>
<p>Of course, rules do add time.  </p>
<p>But I just wanted to throw it out there that &#8216;Roleplaying-intensive&#8217; games can actually benfit from a &#8216;mechanics-intensive&#8217; system, if the mechanics in question are not combat heavy, but emphasize social skills and character-growth.</p>
<p>(Of course, this often drives one to abandon all other rule systems and mke one&#8217;s own, but that is a different thread.)
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		<title>By: darkliquid</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator>darkliquid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 17:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-138</guid>
		<description>I know that in the various games I&#039;ve played and the games I GM, I&#039;ve been leaning towards dropping system mechanics almost completely and heading in a more &#039;guided freeform&#039; direction, with perhaps some very light stats, or single die rolls just to add an element of chance into the game.

I find that its easier to pay attention to a character and their actions and really craft immersive responses from NPC&#039;s, the world in general and describe events with more dramatic flair and fun when I&#039;m not shackled by a rules system or have to stick my nose in a rulebook for ten minutes looking for some esoteric rule for the unlikely/complicated action/event that inevitably takes place.

Of course, being very flexible with rules as a GM can achieve the same effect, a sort of hybrid freeform/system game, the trouble with hybridising is that the players tend to look to the rules too much for guidance/advantages then to get around the freeform decisions and that ends up being a hassle.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;138&#039;,&#039;darkliquid&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that in the various games I&#8217;ve played and the games I GM, I&#8217;ve been leaning towards dropping system mechanics almost completely and heading in a more &#8216;guided freeform&#8217; direction, with perhaps some very light stats, or single die rolls just to add an element of chance into the game.</p>
<p>I find that its easier to pay attention to a character and their actions and really craft immersive responses from NPC&#8217;s, the world in general and describe events with more dramatic flair and fun when I&#8217;m not shackled by a rules system or have to stick my nose in a rulebook for ten minutes looking for some esoteric rule for the unlikely/complicated action/event that inevitably takes place.</p>
<p>Of course, being very flexible with rules as a GM can achieve the same effect, a sort of hybrid freeform/system game, the trouble with hybridising is that the players tend to look to the rules too much for guidance/advantages then to get around the freeform decisions and that ends up being a hassle.
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		<title>By: Irda Ranger</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>Irda Ranger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 12:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-119</guid>
		<description>I hope future posts describe how rule systems which encourage immersive role play can be adapted to lots of game systems.  For instance, I like how Burning Wheel rewards in-character actions and discussion, but that doesn&#039;t mean I have to play Burning Wheel to get that. How you grant XP awards are usually the most flexible part of any system, and can easily be swapped around.

So, if Step 3 is &quot;State Your Intentions&quot;, Step 3 1/2 should be &quot;State How you&#039;re putting your money where your mouth is.&quot; Back it up with concrete rewards to the players.


And hey, first comment at Gnome Stew!&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;119&#039;,&#039;Irda Ranger&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope future posts describe how rule systems which encourage immersive role play can be adapted to lots of game systems.  For instance, I like how Burning Wheel rewards in-character actions and discussion, but that doesn&#8217;t mean I have to play Burning Wheel to get that. How you grant XP awards are usually the most flexible part of any system, and can easily be swapped around.</p>
<p>So, if Step 3 is &#8220;State Your Intentions&#8221;, Step 3 1/2 should be &#8220;State How you&#8217;re putting your money where your mouth is.&#8221; Back it up with concrete rewards to the players.</p>
<p>And hey, first comment at Gnome Stew!
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		<title>By: Kurt "Telas" Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt "Telas" Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 04:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-112</guid>
		<description>I suspect &quot;Follow Through&quot; will be somewhere in the near future. That momentum has to be maintained through all the friction it will inevitably run into.  ;-)

I&#039;d say system comes after &quot;declare your intentions&quot;, because there will definitely be feedback from the players, and the choice of system should reflect both the GM and the players&#039; desires.

Good choice; I was starting to think about more RP-heavy gaming...&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;112&#039;,&#039;Kurt \&quot;Telas\&quot; Schneider&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect &#8220;Follow Through&#8221; will be somewhere in the near future. That momentum has to be maintained through all the friction it will inevitably run into.  <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;d say system comes after &#8220;declare your intentions&#8221;, because there will definitely be feedback from the players, and the choice of system should reflect both the GM and the players&#8217; desires.</p>
<p>Good choice; I was starting to think about more RP-heavy gaming&#8230;
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		<title>By: John Arcadian</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>John Arcadian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 02:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-104</guid>
		<description>I think step 3 (Declare Your Intentions) is right behind step 1 (Know Your Players) in importance, but I also think it gets ignored the most by the players. I know of a few games where I&#039;ve outlined what I&#039;d like to run, and told players if they aren&#039;t up for it then no problem. Still it often lapses into player preferences. The chaotic one starts sewing chaos, the method actor keeps trying to bring his character out, the power house keeps vying for fights, etc.  This isn&#039;t always the case of course, and my group has defined its playing style over the years, so it all works pretty well together. 

I don&#039;t think it is that players ignore the theme and mood set out in the social contract or with the GM, but that they lapse into their own play styles after a while.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;104&#039;,&#039;John Arcadian&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think step 3 (Declare Your Intentions) is right behind step 1 (Know Your Players) in importance, but I also think it gets ignored the most by the players. I know of a few games where I&#8217;ve outlined what I&#8217;d like to run, and told players if they aren&#8217;t up for it then no problem. Still it often lapses into player preferences. The chaotic one starts sewing chaos, the method actor keeps trying to bring his character out, the power house keeps vying for fights, etc.  This isn&#8217;t always the case of course, and my group has defined its playing style over the years, so it all works pretty well together. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it is that players ignore the theme and mood set out in the social contract or with the GM, but that they lapse into their own play styles after a while.
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		<title>By: Martin Ralya</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-98</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Ralya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 01:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-98</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments!

@Patrick: You&#039;re right, choosing the right system should probably be step 3, though it could be step 4 -- I think I&#039;ll slot it in there in the second part of this series. Thanks!

@Tommi: I agree that they&#039;re distinct elements, but for me they combine into what I think of as an RP-intensive game. It&#039;s definitely a personal definition.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;98&#039;,&#039;Martin Ralya&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments!</p>
<p>@Patrick: You&#8217;re right, choosing the right system should probably be step 3, though it could be step 4 &#8212; I think I&#8217;ll slot it in there in the second part of this series. Thanks!</p>
<p>@Tommi: I agree that they&#8217;re distinct elements, but for me they combine into what I think of as an RP-intensive game. It&#8217;s definitely a personal definition.
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		<title>By: Tommi</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 21:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-91</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say that the original definition of rp-intensive game has several distinct elements which are not strongly tied together. It could be worth the trouble to treat them all as separate subjects.

At least the following are clearly distinct: In-character dialogue and acting, decisionmaking as the character, marginalising the effect of mechanics.

(I also don&#039;t see how the last one is related, but that is semantic quibbling and hence uninteresting.)&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;91&#039;,&#039;Tommi&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say that the original definition of rp-intensive game has several distinct elements which are not strongly tied together. It could be worth the trouble to treat them all as separate subjects.</p>
<p>At least the following are clearly distinct: In-character dialogue and acting, decisionmaking as the character, marginalising the effect of mechanics.</p>
<p>(I also don&#8217;t see how the last one is related, but that is semantic quibbling and hence uninteresting.)
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		<title>By: Scott Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-75</guid>
		<description>I agree steps two and three are critical.  You laid out some of the issues with not knowing your group in point one-- you can try to make it happen, but it&#039;s going to put a lot more stress on your efforts in step three, when you&#039;re pitching it to them.  You&#039;ll have to explain what you mean and dredge up good examples, or draw them out of your group.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;75&#039;,&#039;Scott Martin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree steps two and three are critical.  You laid out some of the issues with not knowing your group in point one&#8211; you can try to make it happen, but it&#8217;s going to put a lot more stress on your efforts in step three, when you&#8217;re pitching it to them.  You&#8217;ll have to explain what you mean and dredge up good examples, or draw them out of your group.
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		<title>By: Patrick Benson</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 14:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-39</guid>
		<description>Knowing your group is key to almost every decision that the GM makes prior to his or her next gaming session, and if you can&#039;t know your group beforehand then you have to advertise exactly what you are hoping to achieve with the session (such as with a convention game). It is definitely a good starting point for making many GMing decisions.

I think you left out an important step: Choose the right system. If you want intense role playing you should play a system that was designed for such an effect. You need to have the right tools for the job.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;39&#039;,&#039;Patrick Benson&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Knowing your group is key to almost every decision that the GM makes prior to his or her next gaming session, and if you can&#8217;t know your group beforehand then you have to advertise exactly what you are hoping to achieve with the session (such as with a convention game). It is definitely a good starting point for making many GMing decisions.</p>
<p>I think you left out an important step: Choose the right system. If you want intense role playing you should play a system that was designed for such an effect. You need to have the right tools for the job.
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		<title>By: PaPeRoTTo</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/so-you-want-to-gm-a-roleplaying-intensive-game-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>PaPeRoTTo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 12:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=49#comment-25</guid>
		<description>First :D

I&#039;ve always tried to have a Roleplaying-intensive campaign, but until this one i&#039;m playing now, all the attempts were just a failure.

Now it seems that the wind is changing a bit and with a switch between some players who went away and some that went in, we&#039;re trying with some success to roleplay in a more serious way.

i believe the &quot;Know your Group&quot; step is the most important, not only for what they like of the game, but know him/her as a person.. know how he/she will react to something and his/her approach to the game itself.. :) if you know this, you know how to press the right button to switch on the roleplayin&#039; machine! :D&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;25&#039;,&#039;PaPeRoTTo&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always tried to have a Roleplaying-intensive campaign, but until this one i&#8217;m playing now, all the attempts were just a failure.</p>
<p>Now it seems that the wind is changing a bit and with a switch between some players who went away and some that went in, we&#8217;re trying with some success to roleplay in a more serious way.</p>
<p>i believe the &#8220;Know your Group&#8221; step is the most important, not only for what they like of the game, but know him/her as a person.. know how he/she will react to something and his/her approach to the game itself.. <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  if you know this, you know how to press the right button to switch on the roleplayin&#8217; machine! <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('25','PaPeRoTTo'); return false;">Reply</a> </div>
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