Comments on: Making Challenges That Players Love To Beat http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/making-challenges-that-players-love-to-beat The Game Mastering Blog Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:00:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: MoonHunter http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/making-challenges-that-players-love-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-564 MoonHunter Fri, 30 May 2008 16:56:42 +0000 http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=76#comment-564 Most of my success with games is making sure what the players want in the game and for their PCs. I outlined this in Starting a Campaign the MoonHunter way. http://www.strolen.com/content.php?node=1461 In short, before we even start the campaign I poll the players for what they want in a campaign. I ask each player for one to five "bits" they want to see in the upcomming campaign. Each bit is a campaign element, character types, major NPCs (or type of NPC), types of story lines they want to see, the kind of settings, type of adventures they want to see, types of opposition, important elements (magic, tech, skills), and subgenre. After we have refined the campaign a bit, I will represent the upcoming campaign, usually with the beginings of the world pack in place. We will create characters for the campaign (have a casting party). In addition to any notes I make during the casting party, I ask each player for 1-5 things they want to see in the game, with an emphasis on their characters. This time they will give me actual roles they want to see in the game (love interest, evil wizard to be their enemy, etc), storylines they want, types of scenarios they are now intersted in, opponents or types of opponents, and so on. After we have run a campaign for a while, I will check the pulse of the players again, looking for 1-3 things they want to see (or don't want to see again) in the campaign. This way I make sure that I am always doing things that the PCs are having fun with.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('564','MoonHunter'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> Most of my success with games is making sure what the players want in the game and for their PCs. I outlined this in Starting a Campaign the MoonHunter way. http://www.strolen.com/content.php?node=1461

In short, before we even start the campaign I poll the players for what they want in a campaign. I ask each player for one to five “bits” they want to see in the upcomming campaign. Each bit is a campaign element, character types, major NPCs (or type of NPC), types of story lines they want to see, the kind of settings, type of adventures they want to see, types of opposition, important elements (magic, tech, skills), and subgenre.

After we have refined the campaign a bit, I will represent the upcoming campaign, usually with the beginings of the world pack in place. We will create characters for the campaign (have a casting party). In addition to any notes I make during the casting party, I ask each player for 1-5 things they want to see in the game, with an emphasis on their characters. This time they will give me actual roles they want to see in the game (love interest, evil wizard to be their enemy, etc), storylines they want, types of scenarios they are now intersted in, opponents or types of opponents, and so on.

After we have run a campaign for a while, I will check the pulse of the players again, looking for 1-3 things they want to see (or don’t want to see again) in the campaign.

This way I make sure that I am always doing things that the PCs are having fun with.

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]]> By: Martin Ralya http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/making-challenges-that-players-love-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-537 Martin Ralya Thu, 29 May 2008 17:10:19 +0000 http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=76#comment-537 I've always found slander to be very effective for this. ;) When a powerful NPC or group slanders the PCs, stains their honor or otherwise makes them out to be asshats, I've met few players (myself included) whose blood doesn't start to boil.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('537','Martin Ralya'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> I’ve always found slander to be very effective for this. ;) When a powerful NPC or group slanders the PCs, stains their honor or otherwise makes them out to be asshats, I’ve met few players (myself included) whose blood doesn’t start to boil.
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]]> By: age http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/making-challenges-that-players-love-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-516 age Thu, 29 May 2008 09:05:21 +0000 http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=76#comment-516 I can still recall a moment during one of our Fighting Fantasy rules-lite adventures, when one of the scenes involved being overwhelmed by a group of Fishmen with Tridents and nets as players trudged through an Underground sewer. A bit of railroading, i know, but I didn't give it a second thought until the Players (God bless them) refused to surrender even though the odds seemed insurmountable and they were getting hammered. Incredibly, they came up with a plan that involved electrifying the sewer water and simulating the sound of a Giant Centipede (the most feared creature of the Fish Men!) - I just had to relent and give credit where it due. The players had one.... and the tables had been turned....it was my turn to sweat as I had to adlib the next hour which always gets the adrenalin pumping!<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('516','age'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> I can still recall a moment during one of our Fighting Fantasy rules-lite adventures, when one of the scenes involved being overwhelmed by a group of Fishmen with Tridents and nets as players trudged through an Underground sewer. A bit of railroading, i know, but I didn’t give it a second thought until the Players (God bless them) refused to surrender even though the odds seemed insurmountable and they were getting hammered. Incredibly, they came up with a plan that involved electrifying the sewer water and simulating the sound of a Giant Centipede (the most feared creature of the Fish Men!) – I just had to relent and give credit where it due. The players had one…. and the tables had been turned….it was my turn to sweat as I had to adlib the next hour which always gets the adrenalin pumping!
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]]> By: Troy E. Taylor http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/making-challenges-that-players-love-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-492 Troy E. Taylor Wed, 28 May 2008 15:43:24 +0000 http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=76#comment-492 The calzone golem was indeed the yummiest adventure EVAR!<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('492','Troy E. Taylor'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> The calzone golem was indeed the yummiest adventure EVAR!
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]]> By: John Arcadian http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/making-challenges-that-players-love-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-491 John Arcadian Wed, 28 May 2008 15:33:26 +0000 http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=76#comment-491 @sektor: Yeah, the calzone golem was pretty fun. I did have a player hit it with a scorching ray and give it an INSANE armor class. That was a blast. @kurt: Absolutely right. Nothing will sap away a player's enjoyment quicker than being completely overwhelmed by a challenge. There is a nice level where the players will feel like they have overcome something, but didn't think it impossible. The pull it off at the last moment with the incredible action is quite possibly the most awesome thing that can happen in a game, but it isn't really possible to set that up without fudging or controlling every single factor of the action. It just happens and that is what makes it incredible. @chattydm: Of course there is a Gaius Baltar tag :).He is a magnificent bastard!<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('491','John Arcadian'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> @sektor: Yeah, the calzone golem was pretty fun. I did have a player hit it with a scorching ray and give it an INSANE armor class. That was a blast.

@kurt: Absolutely right. Nothing will sap away a player’s enjoyment quicker than being completely overwhelmed by a challenge. There is a nice level where the players will feel like they have overcome something, but didn’t think it impossible. The pull it off at the last moment with the incredible action is quite possibly the most awesome thing that can happen in a game, but it isn’t really possible to set that up without fudging or controlling every single factor of the action. It just happens and that is what makes it incredible.

@chattydm: Of course there is a Gaius Baltar tag :) .He is a magnificent bastard!

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]]> By: ChattyDM http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/making-challenges-that-players-love-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-489 ChattyDM Wed, 28 May 2008 14:50:25 +0000 http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=76#comment-489 You created a Gaius Baltar tag for this post? So cool! :)<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('489','ChattyDM'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> You created a Gaius Baltar tag for this post? So cool! :)
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]]> By: Kurt "Telas" Schneider http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/making-challenges-that-players-love-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-488 Kurt "Telas" Schneider Wed, 28 May 2008 14:07:07 +0000 http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=76#comment-488 Cool moments are great, but <i>watch out for making hard challenges easy in the name of coolness.</i> It's not in the nature of RPGs to emulate (for instance) Bard's slaying of Smaug without it sounding like Monty Haul. Otherwise, right on. Make it tough, make it personal, make it worth it.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('488','Kurt \"Telas\" Schneider'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> Cool moments are great, but watch out for making hard challenges easy in the name of coolness. It’s not in the nature of RPGs to emulate (for instance) Bard’s slaying of Smaug without it sounding like Monty Haul.

Otherwise, right on. Make it tough, make it personal, make it worth it.

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]]> By: Sektor http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/making-challenges-that-players-love-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-486 Sektor Wed, 28 May 2008 12:30:33 +0000 http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=76#comment-486 Ha! The calzone golem! I can't believe you went there :) I've been afraid of eating calzone ever since, for fear of getting burning hot tomato sauce all over me :D<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('486','Sektor'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> Ha! The calzone golem! I can’t believe you went there :)

I’ve been afraid of eating calzone ever since, for fear of getting burning hot tomato sauce all over me :D

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]]> By: ChattyDM http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/making-challenges-that-players-love-to-beat/comment-page-1#comment-485 ChattyDM Wed, 28 May 2008 12:21:19 +0000 http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=76#comment-485 Then you mix and match all of this and you have a Brigade of Sky Bugbear pirates on an Air-elemental and Flumph powered Airship attack said village while the Grand Pirate Admiral gloats from his Flying Castle and cavorts with all of the PCs' sisters who are madly in love with him! Excellent post dear John, thanks for the link... :)<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('485','ChattyDM'); return false;">Reply</a> </div> Then you mix and match all of this and you have a Brigade of Sky Bugbear pirates on an Air-elemental and Flumph powered Airship attack said village while the Grand Pirate Admiral gloats from his Flying Castle and cavorts with all of the PCs’ sisters who are madly in love with him!

Excellent post dear John, thanks for the link… :)

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