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	<title>Comments on: Double Down: Gambling in RPGs</title>
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		<title>By: Knight of Roses</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7078</link>
		<dc:creator>Knight of Roses</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4699#comment-7078</guid>
		<description>I have often had rogues who ran floating craps games to score petty cash between adventures.

And my priestess of Tyche did some heavy duty gambling to raise fund to help the party build fund to improve the town she lived in.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7078&#039;,&#039;Knight of Roses&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have often had rogues who ran floating craps games to score petty cash between adventures.</p>
<p>And my priestess of Tyche did some heavy duty gambling to raise fund to help the party build fund to improve the town she lived in.
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		<title>By: Scott Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7067</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4699#comment-7067</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-7048&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@BryanB&lt;/a&gt; - Probably or something. ;)

&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-7063&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Kurt &quot;Telas&quot; Schneider&lt;/a&gt; - Yeah, thinking is when things get dangerous. It should be avoided at all times!&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7067&#039;,&#039;Scott Martin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-7048' rel="nofollow">@BryanB</a> &#8211; Probably or something. <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><a href='#comment-7063' rel="nofollow">@Kurt &#8220;Telas&#8221; Schneider</a> &#8211; Yeah, thinking is when things get dangerous. It should be avoided at all times!
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		<title>By: Kurt "Telas" Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7063</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt "Telas" Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Never done it, but this is getting me thinking.  (Which is usually a bad thing.)&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7063&#039;,&#039;Kurt \&quot;Telas\&quot; Schneider&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never done it, but this is getting me thinking.  (Which is usually a bad thing.)
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		<title>By: BryanB</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7048</link>
		<dc:creator>BryanB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4699#comment-7048</guid>
		<description>Gambling hasn&#039;t come up that much in my games.

I once had a group of Star Wars PCs gamble but the Jedi cheated and manipulated the &quot;chance cubes.&quot; Too bad the casino manager picked up on what the Jedi was doing. The game went rapidly downhill from that point, kind of validating the theory that cheaters never &quot;prosper&quot; or something like that...&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7048&#039;,&#039;BryanB&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gambling hasn&#8217;t come up that much in my games.</p>
<p>I once had a group of Star Wars PCs gamble but the Jedi cheated and manipulated the &#8220;chance cubes.&#8221; Too bad the casino manager picked up on what the Jedi was doing. The game went rapidly downhill from that point, kind of validating the theory that cheaters never &#8220;prosper&#8221; or something like that&#8230;
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		<title>By: Rafe</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7022</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4699#comment-7022</guid>
		<description>Strangely, I&#039;ve never had gambling come up in a game before, despite the possibilities for fun and further intrigue/hooks.

However, it&#039;s funny you mention Croaker and the mercenaries gambling because the rules for Tonk are in the back of the Black Company Campaign Setting book (Green Ronin).  I&#039;ve always thought that was an awesome addition to the setting.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7022&#039;,&#039;Rafe&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strangely, I&#8217;ve never had gambling come up in a game before, despite the possibilities for fun and further intrigue/hooks.</p>
<p>However, it&#8217;s funny you mention Croaker and the mercenaries gambling because the rules for Tonk are in the back of the Black Company Campaign Setting book (Green Ronin).  I&#8217;ve always thought that was an awesome addition to the setting.
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		<title>By: Scott Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7017</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4699#comment-7017</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-7013&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@MountZionRyan&lt;/a&gt; - How is the SW gambling subsystem? It sounds like it might be a nice way to get through some abstracted gambling without making up your own system.

&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-7015&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@John Arcadian&lt;/a&gt; - Sometimes the best roleplaying happens when your hands are busy and you have a good reason to be in the same place, not killing each other. Gambling&#039;s one good way... well, at least until you catch the cheater. ;)&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7017&#039;,&#039;Scott Martin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-7013' rel="nofollow">@MountZionRyan</a> &#8211; How is the SW gambling subsystem? It sounds like it might be a nice way to get through some abstracted gambling without making up your own system.</p>
<p><a href='#comment-7015' rel="nofollow">@John Arcadian</a> &#8211; Sometimes the best roleplaying happens when your hands are busy and you have a good reason to be in the same place, not killing each other. Gambling&#8217;s one good way&#8230; well, at least until you catch the cheater. <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />
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		<title>By: Zig</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7016</link>
		<dc:creator>Zig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4699#comment-7016</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-7013&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@MountZionRyan&lt;/a&gt; - That&#039;s a good idea letting the players not involved play the NPCs. I&#039;ve done that in other circumstances and my players seem to enjoy stepping into some other shoes for a short time.

Also, gambling rules in Savage Worlds? Now I really need to read that book I picked up a month or so ago after hearing other neat things about the system.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7016&#039;,&#039;Zig&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-7013' rel="nofollow">@MountZionRyan</a> &#8211; That&#8217;s a good idea letting the players not involved play the NPCs. I&#8217;ve done that in other circumstances and my players seem to enjoy stepping into some other shoes for a short time.</p>
<p>Also, gambling rules in Savage Worlds? Now I really need to read that book I picked up a month or so ago after hearing other neat things about the system.
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		<title>By: John Arcadian</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7015</link>
		<dc:creator>John Arcadian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4699#comment-7015</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-7012&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Scott Martin&lt;/a&gt; - Scott, I think you are right that gambling is easiest to do in larps. I was in a Cthulu larp (first larp ever) at this years origins. While waiting for action to come back around to us, we decided to break out the cards and play for sins. It brought out a chance to do some really good roleplaying. Most people played to their characters personality traits, as opposed to their cards. It worked really well.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7015&#039;,&#039;John Arcadian&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-7012' rel="nofollow">@Scott Martin</a> &#8211; Scott, I think you are right that gambling is easiest to do in larps. I was in a Cthulu larp (first larp ever) at this years origins. While waiting for action to come back around to us, we decided to break out the cards and play for sins. It brought out a chance to do some really good roleplaying. Most people played to their characters personality traits, as opposed to their cards. It worked really well.
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		<title>By: MountZionRyan</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7013</link>
		<dc:creator>MountZionRyan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4699#comment-7013</guid>
		<description>One of the most fun evening we had in a Deadlands game was when the PCs entered a gambling den in the Maze.  A real hive of scum and villainy. As only two of the players were gambling, I quickly gave out the few neccesary stats and one or two hooks (needs to make $100 or always cheats) for the other NPCs at the poker table.  The Players not directly involved got to  play the NPCs and we had a lot of fun doing it.

That said, we used the Savage Worlds simplified gambling rules instead of actually playing cards, because the results were more important than the cards.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7013&#039;,&#039;MountZionRyan&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most fun evening we had in a Deadlands game was when the PCs entered a gambling den in the Maze.  A real hive of scum and villainy. As only two of the players were gambling, I quickly gave out the few neccesary stats and one or two hooks (needs to make $100 or always cheats) for the other NPCs at the poker table.  The Players not directly involved got to  play the NPCs and we had a lot of fun doing it.</p>
<p>That said, we used the Savage Worlds simplified gambling rules instead of actually playing cards, because the results were more important than the cards.
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		<title>By: Scott Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7012</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4699#comment-7012</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-7009&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@theEmrys&lt;/a&gt; - Aces and Eights has a system for everything! More seriously, it sounds like it&#039;d be fun to try out. If you do, let us know how it works out.

&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-7010&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Zig&lt;/a&gt; - Yes, gambling is a great way to lose money-- which is great if it means XP. I like the &quot;GP wasted = XP&quot; thing too.

&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-7011&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@deadlytoque&lt;/a&gt; - Yes, if your players don&#039;t want to play a different game in the middle, don&#039;t play the other game. I suspect LARPs are the easiest to work a gambling evening into-- particularly if there&#039;s one or two tables setup and roving GMs for other interactions as normal.

If a PC put lots of points in Craft(Carpentry), then  it&#039;d probably have some impact on the game-- crafting mobile siege engines and shields, making petty cash or impressing noblemen with crafting, figuring out how to find and disassemble complex wooden objects-- yeah, if the player wants to &quot;waste&quot; points on it, it&#039;d be nice if it came up in the story. If he dedicates a skill point or two, sure it can be minor background. If they make it a major investment, it&#039;s a vote for it to be important to the game.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7012&#039;,&#039;Scott Martin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-7009' rel="nofollow">@theEmrys</a> &#8211; Aces and Eights has a system for everything! More seriously, it sounds like it&#8217;d be fun to try out. If you do, let us know how it works out.</p>
<p><a href='#comment-7010' rel="nofollow">@Zig</a> &#8211; Yes, gambling is a great way to lose money&#8211; which is great if it means XP. I like the &#8220;GP wasted = XP&#8221; thing too.</p>
<p><a href='#comment-7011' rel="nofollow">@deadlytoque</a> &#8211; Yes, if your players don&#8217;t want to play a different game in the middle, don&#8217;t play the other game. I suspect LARPs are the easiest to work a gambling evening into&#8211; particularly if there&#8217;s one or two tables setup and roving GMs for other interactions as normal.</p>
<p>If a PC put lots of points in Craft(Carpentry), then  it&#8217;d probably have some impact on the game&#8211; crafting mobile siege engines and shields, making petty cash or impressing noblemen with crafting, figuring out how to find and disassemble complex wooden objects&#8211; yeah, if the player wants to &#8220;waste&#8221; points on it, it&#8217;d be nice if it came up in the story. If he dedicates a skill point or two, sure it can be minor background. If they make it a major investment, it&#8217;s a vote for it to be important to the game.
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		<title>By: deadlytoque</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7011</link>
		<dc:creator>deadlytoque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My issue with gambling at the table -- at least in traditional RPGs -- is that it takes players away from what they actually came to do: play an RPG. If your PCs have a gambling skill, then it&#039;s only fair to let them use it once in a while, but keep it short and then get back to the real game at hand, especially if not everyone has it. If a PC had Craft (Carpentry), you wouldn&#039;t feel the need to have long asides from the main game or come up with intricate subsystems to allow them to make chairs, would you?

Also, using gambling as a way to give the characters things that they want is illusionist, at best. If you want your players to have the Millenium Falcon and you make them play Sabacc for it, and they _lose_, then you&#039;ve just wasted everyone&#039;s time and you have to throw in a Deus ex Machina to get them back on-track, or else wait until some alternative presents itself. Otherwise you have to cheat behind the screen to give them what they want.

In a more narrativist resolution mechanic, you can get away with stuff like this a lot more. I&#039;m thinking specifically of shifting-narrative-control games like &lt;i&gt;Houses of the Blooded&lt;/i&gt; or &lt;i&gt;Polaris&lt;/i&gt;. In games like that, gambling becomes simple a dramatic/narrative exercise, because it&#039;s just as much part of the greater system, with as much room for consequences, as anything else (fighting, infiltration, politics).&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7011&#039;,&#039;deadlytoque&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My issue with gambling at the table &#8212; at least in traditional RPGs &#8212; is that it takes players away from what they actually came to do: play an RPG. If your PCs have a gambling skill, then it&#8217;s only fair to let them use it once in a while, but keep it short and then get back to the real game at hand, especially if not everyone has it. If a PC had Craft (Carpentry), you wouldn&#8217;t feel the need to have long asides from the main game or come up with intricate subsystems to allow them to make chairs, would you?</p>
<p>Also, using gambling as a way to give the characters things that they want is illusionist, at best. If you want your players to have the Millenium Falcon and you make them play Sabacc for it, and they _lose_, then you&#8217;ve just wasted everyone&#8217;s time and you have to throw in a Deus ex Machina to get them back on-track, or else wait until some alternative presents itself. Otherwise you have to cheat behind the screen to give them what they want.</p>
<p>In a more narrativist resolution mechanic, you can get away with stuff like this a lot more. I&#8217;m thinking specifically of shifting-narrative-control games like <i>Houses of the Blooded</i> or <i>Polaris</i>. In games like that, gambling becomes simple a dramatic/narrative exercise, because it&#8217;s just as much part of the greater system, with as much room for consequences, as anything else (fighting, infiltration, politics).
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		<title>By: Zig</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7010</link>
		<dc:creator>Zig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Personally I have only used gambling in an old first edition Top Secret adventure. The mission took place in a casino and the adventure came with rules for a number of games so the players could gamble. Can&#039;t recall the name of the adventure, but it was one put out by TSR, not a home brew.

I&#039;m thinking of adding gambling in as a minor thing in my new second edition D&amp;D campaign. I have a couple players who would enjoy it. Also, I plan to use the 1gp=1xp point for players who blow their adventuring gains in high fashion ala Conan, so gambling would be a good thing. Another Gnome commentator shared that idea in the comments of another article (sorry, I can&#039;t recall who it was, but I thought it a great idea!).&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7010&#039;,&#039;Zig&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally I have only used gambling in an old first edition Top Secret adventure. The mission took place in a casino and the adventure came with rules for a number of games so the players could gamble. Can&#8217;t recall the name of the adventure, but it was one put out by TSR, not a home brew.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking of adding gambling in as a minor thing in my new second edition D&amp;D campaign. I have a couple players who would enjoy it. Also, I plan to use the 1gp=1xp point for players who blow their adventuring gains in high fashion ala Conan, so gambling would be a good thing. Another Gnome commentator shared that idea in the comments of another article (sorry, I can&#8217;t recall who it was, but I thought it a great idea!).
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		<title>By: theEmrys</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/double-down-gambling-in-rpgs/comment-page-1#comment-7009</link>
		<dc:creator>theEmrys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=4699#comment-7009</guid>
		<description>In the game Aces &amp; Eights (Western RPG) they have a mini-system for gambling which is pretty neat.  For the most part it&#039;s a straight up game, but the cheating mechanic is well done.  It involves getting some extra cards you can add to your hand (from another deck) but even though you may get great cards, much like &quot;real&quot; cheating this way, you have to hope nobody has a similar card in their hand.  Now, for a western RPG it makes a lot of sense to have poker rules (and not Texas Holdem!).  To this point though I&#039;ve not had a game going where I felt comfortable using these rules, due both to my lack of familiarity with poker as well as the time involved.  Still, I can see getting there, especially if a few of my PCs are interested in being gamblers.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;7009&#039;,&#039;theEmrys&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the game Aces &amp; Eights (Western RPG) they have a mini-system for gambling which is pretty neat.  For the most part it&#8217;s a straight up game, but the cheating mechanic is well done.  It involves getting some extra cards you can add to your hand (from another deck) but even though you may get great cards, much like &#8220;real&#8221; cheating this way, you have to hope nobody has a similar card in their hand.  Now, for a western RPG it makes a lot of sense to have poker rules (and not Texas Holdem!).  To this point though I&#8217;ve not had a game going where I felt comfortable using these rules, due both to my lack of familiarity with poker as well as the time involved.  Still, I can see getting there, especially if a few of my PCs are interested in being gamblers.
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