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	<title>Comments on: Don&#8217;t Say No, Say &#8220;Go ahead.&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: zerfinity</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/dont-say-no-say-go-ahead/comment-page-1#comment-3220</link>
		<dc:creator>zerfinity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=1792#comment-3220</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d just like to add a brief comment from my experience. The best thing I&#039;ve done to get my players to do more work for a campaign is to tell them from the beginning that it would be required, make clear what kinds, and then added benefits when they followed through. Get your current character wealth to me on time and I&#039;ll stack the next bad guys with stuff you need. Help another player become familiar with the rules and I&#039;ll add to the XP pot from your character (I use a collective pot equally distributed but with bonuses to the highest earners).

When I started running the Eberron campaign, I told the players, &quot;Look I don&#039;t really have a lot of time for this so I&#039;ll be running this train on the rails and I&#039;ll need you all to both accept and help with that.&quot; When one player wanted to follow a side interest another player reminded him of this and I didn&#039;t have to do anything.

So by all means, set those boundaries, make it clear that the players need to pitch in, just do it as early and clearly as possible. If you have noobs, give them links or ideas on how to do the jobs you&#039;ve delegated to them. Then step back and accept that you&#039;ve given up the control of that element and accept what comes.

-zerfinity
http://zerfinity.blogspot.com/&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3220&#039;,&#039;zerfinity&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d just like to add a brief comment from my experience. The best thing I&#8217;ve done to get my players to do more work for a campaign is to tell them from the beginning that it would be required, make clear what kinds, and then added benefits when they followed through. Get your current character wealth to me on time and I&#8217;ll stack the next bad guys with stuff you need. Help another player become familiar with the rules and I&#8217;ll add to the XP pot from your character (I use a collective pot equally distributed but with bonuses to the highest earners).</p>
<p>When I started running the Eberron campaign, I told the players, &#8220;Look I don&#8217;t really have a lot of time for this so I&#8217;ll be running this train on the rails and I&#8217;ll need you all to both accept and help with that.&#8221; When one player wanted to follow a side interest another player reminded him of this and I didn&#8217;t have to do anything.</p>
<p>So by all means, set those boundaries, make it clear that the players need to pitch in, just do it as early and clearly as possible. If you have noobs, give them links or ideas on how to do the jobs you&#8217;ve delegated to them. Then step back and accept that you&#8217;ve given up the control of that element and accept what comes.</p>
<p>-zerfinity<br />
<a href="http://zerfinity.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://zerfinity.blogspot.com/</a>
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		<title>By: JackSmithIV</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/dont-say-no-say-go-ahead/comment-page-1#comment-3102</link>
		<dc:creator>JackSmithIV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 05:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=1792#comment-3102</guid>
		<description>I personally would use this opportunity to bring new people into the hobby. 4th Edition is a great gateway to playing tabletop RPGs. Whenever starting a new campaign, I always make sure I have one person at the table who&#039;s never played before. Often, they&#039;ll be the most original, resourceful, and enthusiastic.

As long as you know how to make a good pitch, bring some more people in! God knows we need &#039;em...&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3102&#039;,&#039;JackSmithIV&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally would use this opportunity to bring new people into the hobby. 4th Edition is a great gateway to playing tabletop RPGs. Whenever starting a new campaign, I always make sure I have one person at the table who&#8217;s never played before. Often, they&#8217;ll be the most original, resourceful, and enthusiastic.</p>
<p>As long as you know how to make a good pitch, bring some more people in! God knows we need &#8216;em&#8230;
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		<title>By: Kurt "Telas" Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/dont-say-no-say-go-ahead/comment-page-1#comment-3101</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt "Telas" Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=1792#comment-3101</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with your original point - If your players want something from your game, they should be willing to shoulder at least part of the burden.  The more the workload is shared, the less likely the GM will burn out (IMHO, the primary source of most aborted campaigns).

Before pregnancy, 4th edition, and my current crush on Savage Worlds, I had some plans for my next 3.5 game: One player would handle initiative with a &lt;a href=&quot;http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/o/openMindGames/v5748btpy7uvm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;GameMastery Combat Pad&lt;/a&gt;, one would track hit points, one would act as &quot;the banker&quot; and handle shopping chores, and one would track XP and treasure.  (At the time, I wanted to use &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.campaigncoins.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Campaign Coins&lt;/a&gt; and track hit points independently of the players.)  If I had a fifth player he or she would take notes and publish a journal.  If anyone didn&#039;t want to take one of these chores, I was going to dock their XP.  :(  

Things changed:  I got away from the overly-detailed approach to gaming that 3.5 follows.  I fell in lust with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.studio2publishing.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=25_75_129&amp;products_id=2364&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a system&lt;/a&gt; that doesn&#039;t use &#039;round robin&#039; initiative.  I figured that players should track their own hit points (for simplicity, but I like the &quot;you don&#039;t really know your chances&quot; approach).  I still want to use the Campaign Coins, and have a good journal, but I figure we can work that out.  

Oh, and my wife gave birth to our first child.  Things REALLY changed, and I&#039;m just now getting back to working on a campaign...&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3101&#039;,&#039;Kurt \&quot;Telas\&quot; Schneider&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with your original point &#8211; If your players want something from your game, they should be willing to shoulder at least part of the burden.  The more the workload is shared, the less likely the GM will burn out (IMHO, the primary source of most aborted campaigns).</p>
<p>Before pregnancy, 4th edition, and my current crush on Savage Worlds, I had some plans for my next 3.5 game: One player would handle initiative with a <a href="http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/o/openMindGames/v5748btpy7uvm" rel="nofollow">GameMastery Combat Pad</a>, one would track hit points, one would act as &#8220;the banker&#8221; and handle shopping chores, and one would track XP and treasure.  (At the time, I wanted to use <a href="http://www.campaigncoins.com/" rel="nofollow">Campaign Coins</a> and track hit points independently of the players.)  If I had a fifth player he or she would take notes and publish a journal.  If anyone didn&#8217;t want to take one of these chores, I was going to dock their XP.  <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' />   </p>
<p>Things changed:  I got away from the overly-detailed approach to gaming that 3.5 follows.  I fell in lust with <a href="http://www.studio2publishing.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=25_75_129&amp;products_id=2364" rel="nofollow">a system</a> that doesn&#8217;t use &#8217;round robin&#8217; initiative.  I figured that players should track their own hit points (for simplicity, but I like the &#8220;you don&#8217;t really know your chances&#8221; approach).  I still want to use the Campaign Coins, and have a good journal, but I figure we can work that out.  </p>
<p>Oh, and my wife gave birth to our first child.  Things REALLY changed, and I&#8217;m just now getting back to working on a campaign&#8230;
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		<title>By: Martin Ralya</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/dont-say-no-say-go-ahead/comment-page-1#comment-3097</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Ralya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=1792#comment-3097</guid>
		<description>Straying from your intentions is my middle name, incidentally. It&#039;s hell when I&#039;m filling out forms, let me tell you.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3097&#039;,&#039;Martin Ralya&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Straying from your intentions is my middle name, incidentally. It&#8217;s hell when I&#8217;m filling out forms, let me tell you.
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		<title>By: nblade</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/dont-say-no-say-go-ahead/comment-page-1#comment-3094</link>
		<dc:creator>nblade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=1792#comment-3094</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-3093&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Patrick Benson&lt;/a&gt; - I don&#039;t think you missed your mark. More like we strayed from your intentions.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3094&#039;,&#039;nblade&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-3093' rel="nofollow">@Patrick Benson</a> &#8211; I don&#8217;t think you missed your mark. More like we strayed from your intentions.
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		<title>By: Patrick Benson</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/dont-say-no-say-go-ahead/comment-page-1#comment-3093</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=1792#comment-3093</guid>
		<description>Eek! I think I missed the mark with my intentions for this article based on the comments. It isn&#039;t about recruiting players, it is about the GM not having to say no to the group but also not having to take on additional work when the group requests something that the GM does not want to do. The player recruiting situation was just an example of this. My bad.

But recruiting players is important too, and your comments bring up some very good points.

&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-3088&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Martin Ralya&lt;/a&gt; - I really like Nearby Gamers, but unfortunately there are not enough gamers in my area who use the site. I hope that one day it catches on big time and all gamers use it, but I also wish that all gamers would bathe and chew with their mouths closed and my last convention experience crushed  that dream. Oh well, one day we&#039;ll reach the promised land . . .

As others have said the FLGS bulletin board has given me the best results so far. I get more responses and find better candidates for the group.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3093&#039;,&#039;Patrick Benson&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eek! I think I missed the mark with my intentions for this article based on the comments. It isn&#8217;t about recruiting players, it is about the GM not having to say no to the group but also not having to take on additional work when the group requests something that the GM does not want to do. The player recruiting situation was just an example of this. My bad.</p>
<p>But recruiting players is important too, and your comments bring up some very good points.</p>
<p><a href='#comment-3088' rel="nofollow">@Martin Ralya</a> &#8211; I really like Nearby Gamers, but unfortunately there are not enough gamers in my area who use the site. I hope that one day it catches on big time and all gamers use it, but I also wish that all gamers would bathe and chew with their mouths closed and my last convention experience crushed  that dream. Oh well, one day we&#8217;ll reach the promised land . . .</p>
<p>As others have said the FLGS bulletin board has given me the best results so far. I get more responses and find better candidates for the group.
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		<title>By: Scott Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/dont-say-no-say-go-ahead/comment-page-1#comment-3092</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=1792#comment-3092</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m currently in the reverse position; I joined a second cool group of gamers about a year ago and have standing requests to run games for another couple of friends who want to try roleplaying (again in one case, and for the first time in another).

In many ways, my situation comes about because I&#039;ve pursued the player finder options in the past. I attended the monthly roleplaying meetups at a local game store (which is how I found and joined my new group) and participate in a local gaming board. It can be frustrating-- I joined a game or two to be friendly and help someone establish a game, even though it wound up being not terribly fun. I guess my advice would be to play as much as you&#039;ll enjoy-- that&#039;ll give you a large pool to pull from later.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3092&#039;,&#039;Scott Martin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m currently in the reverse position; I joined a second cool group of gamers about a year ago and have standing requests to run games for another couple of friends who want to try roleplaying (again in one case, and for the first time in another).</p>
<p>In many ways, my situation comes about because I&#8217;ve pursued the player finder options in the past. I attended the monthly roleplaying meetups at a local game store (which is how I found and joined my new group) and participate in a local gaming board. It can be frustrating&#8211; I joined a game or two to be friendly and help someone establish a game, even though it wound up being not terribly fun. I guess my advice would be to play as much as you&#8217;ll enjoy&#8211; that&#8217;ll give you a large pool to pull from later.
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		<title>By: Rafe</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/dont-say-no-say-go-ahead/comment-page-1#comment-3091</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=1792#comment-3091</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s a good idea to have players recruit players, but it depends.  The best group I&#039;ve ever been in started with an Army officer (DM) putting up a flyer at the gaming store where we lived.  He got a player right then and there, someone who was in the store and heard the DM asking the owner where he could put a flyer.  I then got an email through accessdenied.net (.com?  whatever) and said, &quot;Sure, I&#039;ll come meet you.&quot;  I brought in my housemate and long-time friend and the player from the gaming store brought his buddy.  We then had four players and a DM.  We added two more (a friend of mine and his friend) later on.

The campaign lasted over 2 years.  In that time, we celebrated Easter together (we were university students with the DM the only working family man), we helped the DM build his fence and deck, and, four years later, we&#039;re still great friends and get together when we can.

Random chance brought us together from different backgrounds (two military college students, two university students and a military officer) and we&#039;ve been good friends for over 7 years.  My point?  You never know how things will work out.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3091&#039;,&#039;Rafe&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s a good idea to have players recruit players, but it depends.  The best group I&#8217;ve ever been in started with an Army officer (DM) putting up a flyer at the gaming store where we lived.  He got a player right then and there, someone who was in the store and heard the DM asking the owner where he could put a flyer.  I then got an email through accessdenied.net (.com?  whatever) and said, &#8220;Sure, I&#8217;ll come meet you.&#8221;  I brought in my housemate and long-time friend and the player from the gaming store brought his buddy.  We then had four players and a DM.  We added two more (a friend of mine and his friend) later on.</p>
<p>The campaign lasted over 2 years.  In that time, we celebrated Easter together (we were university students with the DM the only working family man), we helped the DM build his fence and deck, and, four years later, we&#8217;re still great friends and get together when we can.</p>
<p>Random chance brought us together from different backgrounds (two military college students, two university students and a military officer) and we&#8217;ve been good friends for over 7 years.  My point?  You never know how things will work out.
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		<title>By: nblade</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/dont-say-no-say-go-ahead/comment-page-1#comment-3090</link>
		<dc:creator>nblade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=1792#comment-3090</guid>
		<description>NearbyGamer is a good starting point. Sadly, my area seems to have a bunch of slackers. I&#039;ve actually had more luck using the old game store bulletin board and see who&#039;s looking for a game.

As a side note, I&#039;ve noticed a horrible trend in my blogs and my comments lately. Seems my fingers and brains have a slight disconnect. I&#039;ll proof what I&#039;m writing, only to re-read it hours later to find missing words or in some cases wrong words. So, sorry about that folks.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3090&#039;,&#039;nblade&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NearbyGamer is a good starting point. Sadly, my area seems to have a bunch of slackers. I&#8217;ve actually had more luck using the old game store bulletin board and see who&#8217;s looking for a game.</p>
<p>As a side note, I&#8217;ve noticed a horrible trend in my blogs and my comments lately. Seems my fingers and brains have a slight disconnect. I&#8217;ll proof what I&#8217;m writing, only to re-read it hours later to find missing words or in some cases wrong words. So, sorry about that folks.
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		<title>By: Martin Ralya</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/dont-say-no-say-go-ahead/comment-page-1#comment-3088</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Ralya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=1792#comment-3088</guid>
		<description>Point your players to &lt;a href=&quot;http://nearbygamers.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NearbyGamers&lt;/a&gt;, if you haven&#039;t already. That plus an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.treasuretables.org/2005/09/interviewing-prospective-players&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;interview&lt;/a&gt; enabled my group to recruit our last player; he rocks and has become our friend, not just a gaming buddy.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3088&#039;,&#039;Martin Ralya&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point your players to <a href="http://nearbygamers.com/" rel="nofollow">NearbyGamers</a>, if you haven&#8217;t already. That plus an <a href="http://www.treasuretables.org/2005/09/interviewing-prospective-players" rel="nofollow">interview</a> enabled my group to recruit our last player; he rocks and has become our friend, not just a gaming buddy.
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		<title>By: nblade</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/dont-say-no-say-go-ahead/comment-page-1#comment-3087</link>
		<dc:creator>nblade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/?p=1792#comment-3087</guid>
		<description>I think you have the right idea. If your players find other people to join, then sure let them join. Of course finding those players is just plain hard as you mentioned. I am currently in the opposite position, I have to find players. The rough work schedule for all members of my group has made it impossible to have them all play. As you note, its sometimes hard to coordinate everything. I&#039;ve tried to use Google Calendar, but seems I&#039;m the only tech-head. Based on schedules and other conflict, I&#039;ve effectively losing 3 players. Then I have linked gamers, in this case a couple. If one of them can&#039;t make it then other one will not make it. Sadly, if it wasn&#039;t for a side group I&#039;ve been gaming with, I&#039;d not be gaming at all.

OK, enough of my problems, back to you. 
So the answer is yes, let your players find the additional players they seek. Like all things, you should make sure the players are in sync with what you are doing. It&#039;s said but getting new gamers is sort of like hiring new employees. There is always be an informal interview of some point. In the end both sides need to be happy, so everyone has fun.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;3087&#039;,&#039;nblade&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have the right idea. If your players find other people to join, then sure let them join. Of course finding those players is just plain hard as you mentioned. I am currently in the opposite position, I have to find players. The rough work schedule for all members of my group has made it impossible to have them all play. As you note, its sometimes hard to coordinate everything. I&#8217;ve tried to use Google Calendar, but seems I&#8217;m the only tech-head. Based on schedules and other conflict, I&#8217;ve effectively losing 3 players. Then I have linked gamers, in this case a couple. If one of them can&#8217;t make it then other one will not make it. Sadly, if it wasn&#8217;t for a side group I&#8217;ve been gaming with, I&#8217;d not be gaming at all.</p>
<p>OK, enough of my problems, back to you.<br />
So the answer is yes, let your players find the additional players they seek. Like all things, you should make sure the players are in sync with what you are doing. It&#8217;s said but getting new gamers is sort of like hiring new employees. There is always be an informal interview of some point. In the end both sides need to be happy, so everyone has fun.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('3087','nblade'); return false;">Reply</a> </div>
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