3.X was much better than previous editions, but had some huge obstacles to running the kind of action-packed, cinematic games I dreamed of. I’ve been hitting that goal lately with SWSE, and part of that is I have adopted the 4e skill challenge system, which makes social encounters much more exciting. That pretty much means 4e was made with me in mind.

As for cost, selling my 3.X books paid for the next 10 4e books, and it’s not like I didn’t get a ton of use out of them, so all seems right in the world on that account.

New reader here, referred to the blog by ENWorld. : )

As a game store owner, I of course have a vested interest in getting folks interested in 4E.

That said, of the 3 campaigns I’m involved in, 2 will continue on in 3.5 (an Eberron and Pathfinder game I play in), while the ‘store game’ I run will wrap in 3.5 at 18th level and we’ll start a new campaign in 4th.

Right now everyone in my group is enthusiastic for 4E, but plans to keep playing 3.5 alongside it. I have a feeling that for many, many ‘more than 1 campaign’ type gamers, this will become the new paradigm over the next few months. There’s no reason on Earth why you can’t keep using those 3.5 books AND enjoy a separate 4E game.

Expense isn’t a huge factor for us, as most folks involved in the game are working professionals, and the cost of a new PHB is about what it costs to go out to dinner, and less than a single tank of gas these days. We’ve done our best to incentivize in-store purchase of the books (we’re having a release day party and pushing WWDnD Day hard), but with the understanding that predatory pricing will capture some portion of those local gamers ambivalent about the purchase. We just factor that into our numbers… it’s not like price-sensitive gamers were buying those huge piles of ‘obsolete’ 3.5 books they’re griping about from us either. Enough gamers either a) value the space and play experience the store provides or b) are new to the game and appreciate our helping them learn it (read: parents of young, new players) that they are willing to pay what the publisher says the books are worth in sufficient numbers that I’m fully confident that 4E will be a plenty-big hit. (And we’ll sell a ‘heavy load’ worth for the Holidays, as some of the later adopters get on board using Holiday gift-giving…)

At the end of the day, we won’t know for sure the real impact the new version has on the already-installed D&D base until, I’d say, post-GenCon. By that time, everyone will have thoroughly read the rules, (and probably had a chance to play some even if they haven’t, at Origins and GenCon). We’ll have seen the new adventures, and the Forgotten Realms, which ought to have a big impact on opinion as well.

What I’ve played of it so far has me impressed if only because it was SO much easier to DM, and all indications are that the ease will definitely extend to putting together encounters. Much as I love 3.5, I won’t miss needing 2 hours to fully stat out a high-level dragon…

-Jim C.

That’s worth putting on a T-shirt, MXYZPLK.
I think many of your observations are at the core of what I’ve been mulling for some time now, thought I’m less concerned about the story aspects. If the game is still true to its original precept: The only limits are your imagination, then I think you can make the rules fit any homebrew or previously published setting.

I have to admit, I’ve been excited about the idea of a fourth edition. I think it’s time for a oil change, so to speak, on the rules themselves. My disappointment lies in how fourth edition had been marketed to its existing D&D fan base. WotC’s marketing efforts have been clumsy.

1. Loss of back compatibility. I’m one of those played-since-red-box guys. I have a huge amount of 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5e stuff. I liked the 1e->2e transition and the 2e->3e transition – the game rules got better and more streamlined but you could still use your older material to some extent.
Now with 4e they are deliberately changing not just the rules but the “embedded setting” details. Making older settings like Greyhawk, FR, and homebrews work given their new core ideas they’re pushing in everything from cosmology to race conception will be too difficult to merit not just staying with an older ruleset. For the first time I won’t be able to pull out an old adventure, file off some of the game rules, and rerun it intermingled with their new ones, which appear to be deliberately wallowing in the changes (shadowfell, feywild, etc.)

2. The rules. You know, we played Basic, 1e, and 2e only using minis when we wanted to. 3e->3.5e made this a lot harder,and now the 4e rules are purely tactical mini game rules. All the abilities are “shift a square” this and “mark” that. I prefer the in-game realistic setting to come first, and not their attempt at selling a collectible tactical minis game. From what I’ve seen of 4e, it’s not simpler – it would be great if it was, but they took one step forward and removed some fiddly bits then took two big steps back and added many more.
You “can” roleplay with any rules, including Monopoly. But a game’s rules can very much work towards or against that end and these rules work against it. They’re turning it into a tactical minis game so they can take it online, and the reason I still play RPGs in addition to games like WoW is the deeper aspect to them that a computer board can’t simulate. Remove that, and then it’s evaluating your computer game vs someone else’s, and TSR/WotC has never put out any computer based product that did not suck hard. Early glimpses of Gleemax, the online char builder, etc. do absolutely nothing to give me hope that will change.

Since I was looking at changing systems anyways, I’ll run 4e and see how it goes. I coughed up $63 for the 3 core books already which really isn’t that bad. (I’d love to by from my local gaming shop, but it’s about twice as much.)

I’ll say that the changes to the core races/classes of the game bugs the carp out of me. I play D&D damn it, not some strange far-from-center fantasy RPG! I can add/prohibit races/classes easily, but still.

Is it dumbed down? In a fashion, but the game has always been what we make it. I’m all for streamlined mechanics. I like to just run the game, not reference 3 sections from the same book to sort out some strange rules. The rules-for-everything approach is terrible, so less is more IMO.

I’m not sold on 4e (well, I did BUY it though, didn’t I…), but I’ll give it a shot. I fear they’re trying to compete with a non PnP world, and that’s just not a good idea. If it’s those folks they’re trying to attrack, this this gamer they’re going to lose to True20 or the like.

From a mechanics standpoint, I’ve read through the Worldwide D&D Game Day adventure that I’ll be running on the 7th (if anyone is near Oberlin, OH that day, stop on up!) and combat seems to play out just like 3.X, but much more streamlined. Our group’s big caveat is that we run Forgotten Realms, and will need to see what happens with that release in August before we decide if we move forward. I still plan on running LFR on the side, so it’ll be necessary for me to know 4e, but I’m not going to force the conversion on the rest of the group…

I play board games and routinely drop 40-70 on them. To me this is a good value. These board games will give me a lifetime of play for that entry cost. They often have expansions at a $20 rate or so and these extend the life of the product. This is my value framework for board games.

For an RPG, it’s different. I used to think the D&D stuff was overpriced and still do to a degree, however that feeling has been diminished a bit by some value analysis.

I do not need dungeon tiles or miniatures. So that is one thing in my favor. Game screen I can get by without but will likely pick it up. I will not being paying full MSRP (who does anymore?). So, my initial oputlay will maybe be $80 for three books. Not too bad considering how much fun and play time I will get out of just these three books. That’s only about $26/book.

What will I get? I will get the basics to run adventures and campaigns. I have my imagination and a love for homebrew to drive the rest. In fact, I really do own more 3.5 books than I have ever been able to fully utilize.

Sure, things are more expensive, but everythign goes that route. I think everyone should make their own judgement based on the value they see in the product.

-Eli

BUGS
While still identifiably the same game as 2e, 3.0 added a number of new concepts and apparently hadn’t worked all the bugs out. Many people stockpiled on a huge 3.0 library just to have it go obsolete a mere 3 years later (regardless of backward-compatibility claims, 3.5 was different enough to make conversions a chore).

It sounds like 4e is going to be at least as different from 3.5 as 3.0 was from 2e. Are you willing to drop a lot of money now and in the near future on a product just to have 4.5 come along just as the system was maturing? On the other hand, WOTC may have this base covered, as the yearly core annuals and online subscription should handle this.

By the way, I know my posts make it sound like I’m pro-3.5 and anti-4e. I’m not. As an RPG freelance writer, I’ll likely be writing for both. I’ll have the 4e books close to the release date, and I reserve judgment on the new system until I actually read it.

I’m not opposed to 4e and I’m very curious to learn about the system, but I’m going to wait-and-see. I’m sure they’ll release a system refresh after a year or two and I’ll reconsider buying-in then. There’s a lot about the new system that’s attractive to me, for example, the online-based updates and enhancements. If I could buy a set of core books and get everything else online, including a hypertext rules reference, I’d love it. Will it work out that way? We’ll see.

It doesn’t sit that well with me that I’ve invested $1000 or more in books, supplements and accessories and haven’t had an opportunity to use a majority of it yet. As I said, I’ll be running Arcana Evolved for a little while. I may then move to Iron Heroes, or incorporate more Iron Heroes content into my Arcana Evolved game. I’m very interested in adopting Ptolus, too. Come to think of it, I may do the Paizo-thing and use their 3.x D20 stuff until 4.x matures a bit. I always like Dungeon and never regretted my subscriptions.

I’m excited about it because it’s D&D, and I love D&D. I was introduced to it via the old red box, learned to GM with 2e and was thrilled when 3e came out. At this point, I have a healthy amount of rules fatigue with 3.5e — there’s too much in there that feels like work to me. I’m ready for something more streamlined, and 4e sounds like it’ll do a good job in that department.

I have no stake in “edition wars” (laaaame) — there have been pluses and minuses to every edition I’ve played or run. Whether I get to play it any time or soon or not, there’s no question for me about picking up 4e. I’ll be at Barnes & Noble on 6/6 as soon as humanly possible to pick up my preorder.

Plus, the 4e rules are so clearly focused on how I like to play the game – giving characters the central role, rather than rules and making it clear that it’s a game designed to have fun with, rather than a rules system that you can use to play a game.

I’m really looking forward to the new edition and I think it’ll be a great success.

As for me, based on the previews, I’m going to jump to 4e the second it comes back, only looking back to laugh at leaving 3.5e’s rotting corpse behind. The simplicity and just simple *awesome* shown in the previews has been enough to attract me. It seems each class will have enough internal difference that *just* the base set will offer a great deal of character diversity.