Comments on: D&D Burgoo: The 100-year-old elf (Don’t forget the kiddies!)

By: Troy E. Taylor

Troy E. Taylor — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:54:13 +0000

Swordgleam: That's exactly the challenge. I like to have statted NPCs handy for one reason only -- the players will surprise you. No matter how well prepared you are, the players will surprise you. The moment you think you WON'T need a statted NPC, then that's exactly what the situation will call for. I grant you -- that's probably a weakness of the d20/3.x system. But that's the sandbox I choose to DM in -- and write about.

By: Swordgleam

Swordgleam — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:36:41 +0000

Troy: Those sound interesting. In the first situation, I'd probably just have the kids have a few skills - most parties I know would try to keep the kids out of combat. Now that I think about it, I think you were half-right with the distaste thing, and I was half-right with the realism thing. It's realistic that good-aligned heroes would have a distaste for children in combat. So the party probably isn't going to let any underage allies help them in brawls. As for kids as enemy NPCs, I'd say the same thing applies. If I were a player and I confronted that challenge, I'd assume it was supposed to be a roleplaying/puzzle encounter, and not a combat one - how can I get past this without hurting the kids?

By: link 723 | Molrak.com

link 723 | Molrak.com — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 15:20:55 +0000

[...] D&D Burgoo: The 100-year-old elf (Don’t forget the kiddies!) - Gnome Stew, the Game Mastering ... [...]

By: Troy E. Taylor

Troy E. Taylor — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:55:53 +0000

Swordgleam. Actually, I'm thinking of kids as DM-controlled NPCs in such situations. Two specific examples from published game product I've run across recently: In "Crown of the Kobold King," by Nicolas Logue, kidnapped children are being rescued by the PCs from an underground kobold lair and have an opportunity to aid their rescuers. In "Edge of Anarchy," also by Nicolas Logue, child laborers (who incidentally, also need to be liberated), are intimidated by the boss villain into fighting the PCs.

By: Swordgleam

Swordgleam — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 01:05:56 +0000

Troy: In the examples you mention, kids are the main characters. If the PCs were all kids, then I'd stat them out more or less like normal PCs. But if the PCs weren't kids, why would kids be in the middle of a fight? I think it's less a distasteful thing than a realism thing. If a kid is in combat for some reason, they probably aren't going to last more than one round. I can see using a 12-year-old street rat as an informant, but that sort of thing wouldn't require a full stat block. Maybe some games have a setting or tone where kids would be interacting with the PCs in a way that would require stats. I can't really think of any off the top of my head.

By: Troy E. Taylor

Troy E. Taylor — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:54:58 +0000

I'm curious ... there seems to be the sentiment that kids should be non-combatants in almost all situations. While I would agree with that statement wholeheartedly for the real world, certainly we have a little more leeway in the gaming worlds we as GMs run. Does this sentiment extend to having kids as allies in battles, at least in a Short Round/Goonies/Narnia sort of way? Wouldn't you need stats in those situations? Or is the fact that using kids in such situations is just as distasteful?

By: robosnake

robosnake — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:01:40 +0000

Honestly, the only way I could handle this in a way I thought was reasonable, in 3E at least, was to say that any ‘adult’ person was about 3rd level. That way, children were 1st level and adolescents were 2nd level. This worked really well in homebrew/custom settings, and I was able to adapt a few others. I also took the idea you mentioned of changing the size category for youngsters – no way a 10-year-old should be treated as the same as a six-foot adult.

Of course, I also did this because I just felt that the first couple of levels sucked – especially for casters (I used the rule that Cantrips/Orisons were unlimited per day to help mitigate this a bit). You sort of endured them to get closer to the ‘sweet spot’ in the 5-10 range. I liked starting a game at 3rd – its just a lot more interesting for everyone involved I think.

Hella’s idea is also good – just don’t stat them up. If a kid is threatened by an adult, that’s bad news. It isn’t like the kid is going to win, so some heroic types will have to step in and do something…

By: Troy E. Taylor

Troy E. Taylor — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 16:41:34 +0000

Special feats for kiddie-aged characters. Hmmmmmm.

By: Kurt "Telas" Schneider

Kurt "Telas" Schneider — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:58:41 +0000

In Savage Worlds, take the Major Hindrance: Young. Reduced stats, reduced skills, increased luck (because kids are the luckiest critters in any book or movie). Done.

By: Hella Tellah

Hella Tellah — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:49:32 +0000

As far as I'm concerned, children are non-combatants, so they don't need fancy stat blocks. The same goes for any NPC that isn't involved directly in an adventure, actually, but it goes doubly so for children--I just don't see a fight with kids, even as allies, as particularly in keeping with the tone I like to set in D&D. When they need stats, though, they get their stats the same way any NPC does in my game: the handy-dandy sheet of pre-generated stats. I've got blocks of NPCs of each class of 1st, 3rd, and 5th level, and I just grab one that's appropriate. They all have Skill Focus (X), defensive feats like Great Fortitude and Dodge, and basic, universally useful skills like Sense Motive, Spot and Listen. I always leave one skill unmarked and free-floating; that's the (X) in Skill Focus (X), and it's whatever skill check they happen to be making for the PCs. They're statted up as humans, and I don't really bother to change the stat blocks based on race or age. I think I've given one a +4 to hide once because he was a gnome, but that's as far as it's gone. Between that and my tables of common names by location, I've never needed to do anything else for normal, everyday people.