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	<title>Comments on: A Game is a Work in Progress</title>
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		<title>By: Flynn</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress/comment-page-1#comment-8134</link>
		<dc:creator>Flynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress#comment-8134</guid>
		<description>@LordVreeg:

I think it&#039;s valuable to point out, too, that if the players decide not to pursue clues or mysteries for that matter, the GM is then put in the position of deciding whether to pursue what the players want, or somehow bring them back to the adventure currently planned. I think some GMs follow the players on to new storylines and let the consequences (if any) fall where they will, and others prefer to guide the players back to the mystery storyline (either with a soft touch or a heavy hand).

I think the decision, of course, depends on the GM and the circumstances both in-game and out-of-game here. No one solution will work for everyone. I can say, though, that knowing your players in those regards should make the decision easier. For example, if your players don&#039;t like to be railroaded, guiding with a heavy hand is out. Or, if your players are floundering with no direction of their own, perhaps they need a bit more obvious direction.

There are a lot of interesting ramifications that could come from this topic. I&#039;m looking forward to seeing what comes up here.

With Regards,
Flynn&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;8134&#039;,&#039;Flynn&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@LordVreeg:</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s valuable to point out, too, that if the players decide not to pursue clues or mysteries for that matter, the GM is then put in the position of deciding whether to pursue what the players want, or somehow bring them back to the adventure currently planned. I think some GMs follow the players on to new storylines and let the consequences (if any) fall where they will, and others prefer to guide the players back to the mystery storyline (either with a soft touch or a heavy hand).</p>
<p>I think the decision, of course, depends on the GM and the circumstances both in-game and out-of-game here. No one solution will work for everyone. I can say, though, that knowing your players in those regards should make the decision easier. For example, if your players don&#8217;t like to be railroaded, guiding with a heavy hand is out. Or, if your players are floundering with no direction of their own, perhaps they need a bit more obvious direction.</p>
<p>There are a lot of interesting ramifications that could come from this topic. I&#8217;m looking forward to seeing what comes up here.</p>
<p>With Regards,<br />
Flynn
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		<title>By: LordVreeg</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress/comment-page-1#comment-8133</link>
		<dc:creator>LordVreeg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress#comment-8133</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a good topic.

The best GM&#039;s are flexible and thrive on improvisation.  Period.  Not only should we have those skills avaialble, we should count on using them.  Malky&#039;s opening comment shows a perfect example of this (he&#039;ll go far).

On stage, one of the first pieces of training an actor gets is to act like whatever happens was meant that way.  The audience does not know any better, and if you move smoothly, they&#039;ll never know there was a deviation from the script.  

I will mention, on the subject of mysteries and clues, that sometimes a GM needs to have a little patience.  If the players start to hear the steam wistle and trip over the railroad tracks, they don&#039;t feel too wonderful about solving a mystery.  
Especially in a sandbox game, let them pursue a different direction and resist the urge to throw more and more clues at them.

I run long sandbox games, and one of my groups finally figured out something I thought they were going to get to back in in the middle of 2007.  But I refused to whack them in the head with clues again and again.  It gives the setting more versimilitude when the players see logic actually working.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;8133&#039;,&#039;LordVreeg&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a good topic.</p>
<p>The best GM&#8217;s are flexible and thrive on improvisation.  Period.  Not only should we have those skills avaialble, we should count on using them.  Malky&#8217;s opening comment shows a perfect example of this (he&#8217;ll go far).</p>
<p>On stage, one of the first pieces of training an actor gets is to act like whatever happens was meant that way.  The audience does not know any better, and if you move smoothly, they&#8217;ll never know there was a deviation from the script.  </p>
<p>I will mention, on the subject of mysteries and clues, that sometimes a GM needs to have a little patience.  If the players start to hear the steam wistle and trip over the railroad tracks, they don&#8217;t feel too wonderful about solving a mystery.<br />
Especially in a sandbox game, let them pursue a different direction and resist the urge to throw more and more clues at them.</p>
<p>I run long sandbox games, and one of my groups finally figured out something I thought they were going to get to back in in the middle of 2007.  But I refused to whack them in the head with clues again and again.  It gives the setting more versimilitude when the players see logic actually working.
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		<title>By: Kurt "Telas" Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress/comment-page-1#comment-8112</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt "Telas" Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress#comment-8112</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-8110&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Flynn&lt;/a&gt; - Tell me about it!  I needed a break (what with a new daughter, and all that entails), but it&#039;s good to be back in the hot seat.

Some things are still a bit rusty, but I&#039;ve definitely unlearned some bad habits in the interim.  More later...&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;8112&#039;,&#039;Kurt \&quot;Telas\&quot; Schneider&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-8110' rel="nofollow">@Flynn</a> &#8211; Tell me about it!  I needed a break (what with a new daughter, and all that entails), but it&#8217;s good to be back in the hot seat.</p>
<p>Some things are still a bit rusty, but I&#8217;ve definitely unlearned some bad habits in the interim.  More later&#8230;
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		<title>By: Flynn</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress/comment-page-1#comment-8110</link>
		<dc:creator>Flynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress#comment-8110</guid>
		<description>Even published adventures really aren&#039;t written until they are played. The way the dice fall can easily change the course of an adventure, such as when a character dies or is mortally wounded, or if the bad guy who was supposed to get away doesn&#039;t make it to the door before he is dropped by ranged attacks.

I personally prefer to write my adventures as frameworks and scenarios, and half the time, things never go as I&#039;ve written them out. However, knowing the overall scenario helps me to improv the adventure and present what I hope is an entertaining evening of gaming. The fact that they keep coming back to the gaming table each week lets me know I do a reasonable job of it.

I&#039;m very interested in reading your next series of articles as you are now GMing again after a break. It should be fun! :)

With Regards,
Flynn&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;8110&#039;,&#039;Flynn&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even published adventures really aren&#8217;t written until they are played. The way the dice fall can easily change the course of an adventure, such as when a character dies or is mortally wounded, or if the bad guy who was supposed to get away doesn&#8217;t make it to the door before he is dropped by ranged attacks.</p>
<p>I personally prefer to write my adventures as frameworks and scenarios, and half the time, things never go as I&#8217;ve written them out. However, knowing the overall scenario helps me to improv the adventure and present what I hope is an entertaining evening of gaming. The fact that they keep coming back to the gaming table each week lets me know I do a reasonable job of it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m very interested in reading your next series of articles as you are now GMing again after a break. It should be fun! <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>With Regards,<br />
Flynn
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		<title>By: Kurt "Telas" Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress/comment-page-1#comment-8108</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt "Telas" Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress#comment-8108</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments; keep &#039;em coming.

This article is the result of one of those Zen moments that we all get.  I was commenting on an email about planting clues, and I mentioned that an active GM is a great asset in a mystery game, because he (or she) can keep a hand on the &#039;clue throttle&#039;.  

And then I had two realizations:  1) This applies to all aspects of an adventure, not just the clues.  2) I&#039;m as guilty of it as anyone, since my unconscious template comes from &lt;i&gt;published adventures&lt;/i&gt;.

This is one of the things I love about GMing: There is always another lesson to learn.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;8108&#039;,&#039;Kurt \&quot;Telas\&quot; Schneider&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments; keep &#8216;em coming.</p>
<p>This article is the result of one of those Zen moments that we all get.  I was commenting on an email about planting clues, and I mentioned that an active GM is a great asset in a mystery game, because he (or she) can keep a hand on the &#8216;clue throttle&#8217;.  </p>
<p>And then I had two realizations:  1) This applies to all aspects of an adventure, not just the clues.  2) I&#8217;m as guilty of it as anyone, since my unconscious template comes from <i>published adventures</i>.</p>
<p>This is one of the things I love about GMing: There is always another lesson to learn.
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		<title>By: Scott Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress/comment-page-1#comment-8107</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress#comment-8107</guid>
		<description>The advice to make up extra clues is great-- it can be hard to come up with new clues on the fly. 

If you&#039;re more comfortable with improvising, as BryanB and Rafe are, you can invent new clues/interactions as the session goes on. It sounds like trusting your instincts really worked out for you Malky!&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;8107&#039;,&#039;Scott Martin&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The advice to make up extra clues is great&#8211; it can be hard to come up with new clues on the fly. </p>
<p>If you&#8217;re more comfortable with improvising, as BryanB and Rafe are, you can invent new clues/interactions as the session goes on. It sounds like trusting your instincts really worked out for you Malky!
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		<title>By: BryanB</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress/comment-page-1#comment-8106</link>
		<dc:creator>BryanB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress#comment-8106</guid>
		<description>I agree with the article.

I used to try and do it the other way around. The school of hard knocks taught me that you can&#039;t lay the whole thing out in concrete.

No matter how obvious you think finding a clue will be, there is at least a one in four chance that no one will think of the solution. Does that mean the adventure grinds to a halt. No! You have to figure out a way to impart the information when the entire session hinges upon it. I also try to avoid the entire session hinging on one clue, but there are times where it can&#039;t be helped.

Furthermore, when you were sitting down and you wrote out the whole adventure in advance, taking into account five different outcomes for every scene? NOPE! When presented with five different options, the players will choose option six at least fifty percent of the time (or so it seems)!

Have the theme of the game down. Create your NPCs and give them motivations and goals. Write the opening scene down with a degree of specificity, but at some point, you are going to be modifying some of those expected scenes on the fly, in order to have smooth sailing as the game gets played.

A Game is a Work in Progress -- Why waste all of that time handwringing over every little detail and possible outcome? :D&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;8106&#039;,&#039;BryanB&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the article.</p>
<p>I used to try and do it the other way around. The school of hard knocks taught me that you can&#8217;t lay the whole thing out in concrete.</p>
<p>No matter how obvious you think finding a clue will be, there is at least a one in four chance that no one will think of the solution. Does that mean the adventure grinds to a halt. No! You have to figure out a way to impart the information when the entire session hinges upon it. I also try to avoid the entire session hinging on one clue, but there are times where it can&#8217;t be helped.</p>
<p>Furthermore, when you were sitting down and you wrote out the whole adventure in advance, taking into account five different outcomes for every scene? NOPE! When presented with five different options, the players will choose option six at least fifty percent of the time (or so it seems)!</p>
<p>Have the theme of the game down. Create your NPCs and give them motivations and goals. Write the opening scene down with a degree of specificity, but at some point, you are going to be modifying some of those expected scenes on the fly, in order to have smooth sailing as the game gets played.</p>
<p>A Game is a Work in Progress &#8212; Why waste all of that time handwringing over every little detail and possible outcome? <img src='http://www.gnomestew.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />
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		<title>By: Rafe</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress/comment-page-1#comment-8105</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress#comment-8105</guid>
		<description>Plan the situation, not its resolution; i.e., let the players arrive at the situation of their own accord and don&#039;t plan for how it will end.  Let the players resolve it, &lt;b&gt;then&lt;/b&gt; pick up planning/scheming/winging it for the next portion.  That&#039;s kind of how I try to GM.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;8105&#039;,&#039;Rafe&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plan the situation, not its resolution; i.e., let the players arrive at the situation of their own accord and don&#8217;t plan for how it will end.  Let the players resolve it, <b>then</b> pick up planning/scheming/winging it for the next portion.  That&#8217;s kind of how I try to GM.
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		<title>By: Matthew J. Neagley</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress/comment-page-1#comment-8104</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew J. Neagley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress#comment-8104</guid>
		<description>But.... but..... If I alter my adventure as written, it&#039;s the same as admitting I made a mistake predicting the flow of the adventure, and then I would be a failure as a GM, Telas! My players would KNOW. They&#039;d look across the table with their smug player smiles, and taunt me silently! &quot;We know you just had to wing that part right there GM, because we&#039;re too crafty for you...&quot;. The only way to wipe those grins off their faces will be a Total Player Kill, and I&#039;m sick of finding places to hide bodies!&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;8104&#039;,&#039;Matthew J. Neagley&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But&#8230;. but&#8230;.. If I alter my adventure as written, it&#8217;s the same as admitting I made a mistake predicting the flow of the adventure, and then I would be a failure as a GM, Telas! My players would KNOW. They&#8217;d look across the table with their smug player smiles, and taunt me silently! &#8220;We know you just had to wing that part right there GM, because we&#8217;re too crafty for you&#8230;&#8221;. The only way to wipe those grins off their faces will be a Total Player Kill, and I&#8217;m sick of finding places to hide bodies!
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		<title>By: Malky</title>
		<link>http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress/comment-page-1#comment-8103</link>
		<dc:creator>Malky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gnomestew.com/gming-advice/a-game-is-a-work-in-progress#comment-8103</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a GM running his very first game, and I just finished up a short plotline where doing this absolutely shook up the game, but in a cool way.

My adventuring party was looking for a serial killer, and there was only one witness to any of the deaths.  However, they couldn&#039;t find the witness anywhere  They got him to reveal himself (because, frankly, he wasn&#039;t very smart) by putting an ad in the paper saying that he won a contest.

Now, in my original conception of this adventure, he was dead.  Murdered by the allies of the serial killer.  But I LOVED this idea.  In the context of the plot elements I established so far, I thought it was fascinating and brilliant.  So the witness was alive, and answered the ad in the paper.  They found out who the murderer was, and got a super-expensive magic item that I hadn&#039;t even intended to be in the game.

I thought it worked great.  It wasn&#039;t a matter of them needing more clues, or a better challenge, it&#039;s just that my players came up with an idea that I thought was better than my ideas.  It ended up being simpler than I imagined, but the willingness to stray from my original plot ended up working out.

This time.  In the future, I expect I won&#039;t be so lucky.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;8103&#039;,&#039;Malky&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a GM running his very first game, and I just finished up a short plotline where doing this absolutely shook up the game, but in a cool way.</p>
<p>My adventuring party was looking for a serial killer, and there was only one witness to any of the deaths.  However, they couldn&#8217;t find the witness anywhere  They got him to reveal himself (because, frankly, he wasn&#8217;t very smart) by putting an ad in the paper saying that he won a contest.</p>
<p>Now, in my original conception of this adventure, he was dead.  Murdered by the allies of the serial killer.  But I LOVED this idea.  In the context of the plot elements I established so far, I thought it was fascinating and brilliant.  So the witness was alive, and answered the ad in the paper.  They found out who the murderer was, and got a super-expensive magic item that I hadn&#8217;t even intended to be in the game.</p>
<p>I thought it worked great.  It wasn&#8217;t a matter of them needing more clues, or a better challenge, it&#8217;s just that my players came up with an idea that I thought was better than my ideas.  It ended up being simpler than I imagined, but the willingness to stray from my original plot ended up working out.</p>
<p>This time.  In the future, I expect I won&#8217;t be so lucky.
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